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旧 Oct 28th, 2008, 19:54   只看该作者   #61
温哥华
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默认

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没有任何针对自闭症的负面的东西?

楼主搜索一下就知道这是个极大的误会了。
不好意思,我对自闭症没有太多的研究, 我说的负面的东西是指看不起或者觉得丢人等, 我这么说是怕伤害有自闭症的家庭, 没有表达清楚。

我们在接受着文化的差异, 别忘了, 我们的小孩子也面临同样的问题, 这时候我们作父母的一定要理解小孩, 我们要在不去理解他们和帮助他们,还有谁呢?其实, 我在小孩没上preschool前,根本就没有意思到,这种差异对我和孩子有多大影响。
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感谢 温哥华
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redboy2000 (Oct 28th, 2008)
旧 Oct 28th, 2008, 20:43   只看该作者   #62
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默认

我来说说我见到过的自闭症吧

一个是我国内朋友的女儿,挺漂亮,一岁多之前看着还有些灵气,会叫爸爸妈妈阿姨,到了三四岁还是只会说几个词,到处看病,开始说是脑语言区受损,都只关注语言方面的问题,不知什么时候才认识到自闭症,那时已经很大了。孩子的妈妈一开始不愿生老二,怕影响对女儿的爱,直到女儿九岁才生了老二,老二很聪明健康。那女孩特别认生,特别粘人,眼睛不与人对视,特别喜欢一些东西,她六岁以后能基本的语言交流,只跟她很喜欢的人说话,跟妈妈通电话时她会多说一些话。但她没有自言自语,也没有反复做一件事。我想她是典型的自闭症。听说她爸爸家有几个人性格也有问题,她堂姐以前带她,我见过,有不典型的自闭。(我说的典型自闭症是指条例94年前的标准的)

另外一个小男孩,以前我只觉得他的表现跟年纪不符,显得稚嫩,不会跟小朋友打交道,别的看起来没什么不好,也爱说话,跟熟人说话也有目光对视,后来上学才发现的。小孩子的父亲也很拒绝外界交流。

这里认识的两个,都不是象雨人那样的明显的自闭症,发现有自闭症之前,还没面对文化差异。
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旧 Oct 28th, 2008, 21:06   只看该作者   #63
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默认

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我来说说我见到过的自闭症吧

一个是我国内朋友的女儿,挺漂亮,一岁多之前看着还有些灵气,会叫爸爸妈妈阿姨,到了三四岁还是只会说几个词,到处看病,开始说是脑语言区受损,都只关注语言方面的问题,不知什么时候才认识到自闭症,那时已经很大了。孩子的妈妈一开始不愿生老二,怕影响对女儿的爱,直到女儿九岁才生...
据说自闭症的最常发病期是2-3岁,还有一小部分是7,8岁,后者是在开始较复杂的学习技能时发现明显的滞后,通常上了学之后会慢慢显露,
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旧 Oct 29th, 2008, 02:41   只看该作者   #64
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默认

介个,疫苗是强制打的吧,好象不打不能上学的~
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旧 Oct 29th, 2008, 09:42   只看该作者   #65
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默认

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介个,疫苗是强制打的吧,好象不打不能上学的~
可以,需要签个什么文件。

The only question with wealth is, what do you do with it? - John D. Rockefeller
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旧 Oct 29th, 2008, 20:25   只看该作者   #66
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默认

听说,每个孩子都或多或少的有自闭症的表现, 可能有轻重多少的分别, 我另外认识三个家庭的小孩,虽然没有被诊断自闭(也可能父母没有意思到), 但是我个人认为,已经很很大的倾向。 这个就是让我吃惊的地方,我身边大概认识有孩子的华人家庭并不多,这个比例在我的圈子里真的不小了,这也是我问你们的原因。 各位父母还是多关心一下孩子, 看看自己孩子是不是喜欢和虫子玩,铁别喜欢一个人堆砂子, 平时更喜欢一个人玩, 那样的话,还是注意一下吧,不一定是自闭, 但还是要注意。
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旧 Oct 30th, 2008, 10:04   只看该作者   #67
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作者: 温哥华 查看帖子
听说,每个孩子都或多或少的有自闭症的表现, 可能有轻重多少的分别, 我另外认识三个家庭的小孩,虽然没有被诊断自闭(也可能父母没有意思到), 但是我个人认为,已经很很大的倾向。 这个就是让我吃惊的地方,我身边大概认识有孩子的华人家庭并不多,这个比例在我的圈子里真的不小了,这也是我问你们的原因。 各位父...
这是您对自闭症不了解。自闭症的诊断标准虽然不是很明确(有judgement call在里面),但也不能说每个人都有自闭症。您是把内向的性格(introversion)跟一个严重的由于神经系统失调导致的发育障碍(pervasive developmental disorder)病变混淆了。

如果您怀疑朋友的孩子是自闭症就应该立刻跟他们的父母交流。自闭症的治疗时间非常关键,越早越好。没有这方面的专业知识也就不用臆想了。
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旧 Oct 30th, 2008, 11:34   只看该作者   #68
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默认 转一篇时代周刊的报道

Sunday, May. 07, 2006
Inside the Autistic Mind
By Claudia Wallis

The road to Hannah's mind opened a few days before her 13th birthday.

Her parents, therapists, nutritionists and teachers had spent years preparing the way. They had moved mountains to improve her sense of balance, her sensory perception and her overall health. They sent in truckloads of occupational and physical therapy and emotional support. But it wasn't until the fall of 2005 that traffic finally began to flow in the other direction. Hannah, whose speech was limited to snatches of songs, echoed dialogue and unintelligible utterances, is profoundly autistic, and doctors thought she was most likely retarded. But on that October day, after she was introduced to the use of a specialized computer keyboard, Hannah proved them wrong. "Is there anything you'd like to say, Hannah?" asked Marilyn Chadwick, director of training at the Facilitated Communication Institute at Syracuse University.

With Chadwick helping to stabilize her right wrist and her mother watching, a girl thought to be incapable of learning to read or write slowly typed, "I love Mom."

A year and a half later, Hannah sits with her tutor at a small computer desk in her suburban home outside New York City. Facilitated communication is controversial (critics complain that it's often the facilitator who is really communicating), but it has clearly turned Hannah's life around. Since her breakthrough, she no longer spends much of her day watching Sesame Street and Blue's Clues. Instead, she is working her way through high school biology, algebra and ancient history. "It became obvious fairly quickly that she already knew a lot besides how to read," says her tutor, Tonette Jacob.

During the silent years, it seems, Hannah was soaking up vast storehouses of information. The girl without language had an extensive vocabulary, a sense of humor and some unusual gifts. One day, when Jacob presented her with a page of 30 or so math problems, Hannah took one look, then typed all 30 answers. Stunned, Jacob asked, "Do you have a photographic memory?" Hannah typed "Yes."

Like many people with autism, Hannah is so acutely sensitive to sound that she'll catch every word of a conversation occurring elsewhere in the house, which may account for much of her knowledge. She is also hypersensitive to visual input. Gazing directly at things is difficult, so she often relies on her almost preternatural peripheral vision. Hannah's newfound ability to communicate has enabled her intellect to flower, but it also has a dark side: she has become painfully aware of her own autism. Of this, she writes, "Reality hurts."

MORE THAN 60 YEARS AFTER AUTISM WAS first described by American psychiatrist Leo Kanner, there are still more questions than answers about this complex disorder. Its causes are still uncertain, as are the reasons for the rapidly rising incidence of autism in the U.S., Japan, England, Denmark and France. But slowly, steadily, many myths about autism are falling away, as scientists get a better picture of what's going on in the bodies and brains of people with autism and as more of those who are profoundly affected, like Hannah, are able to give voice to their experience. Among the surprises:

• Autism is almost certainly, like cancer, many diseases with many distinct causes. It's well known that there's a wide range in the severity of symptoms--from profound disability to milder forms like Asperger syndrome, in which intellectual ability is generally high but social awareness is low. Indeed, doctors now prefer the term Autistic Spectrum Disorders (ASD). But scientists suspect there are also distinct subtypes, including an early-onset type and a regressive type that can strike as late as age 2.

• Once thought to be mainly a disease of the cerebellum--a region in the back of the brain that integrates sensory and motor activity, autism is increasingly seen as a pervasive problem with the way the brain is wired. The distribution of white matter, the nerve fibers that link diverse parts of the brain, is abnormal, but it's not clear how much is the cause and how much the result of autism.

• The immune system may play a critical role in the development of at least some types of autism. This suggests some new avenues of prevention and treatment.

• Many classic symptoms of autism--spinning, head banging, endlessly repeating phrases--appear to be coping mechanisms rather than hard-wired behaviors. Other classic symptoms--a lack of emotion, an inability to love--can now be largely dismissed as artifacts of impaired communication. The same may be true of the supposedly high incidence of mental retardation.

• The world of autism therapy continues to be bombarded by cure-of-the-day fads. But therapists are beginning to sort out the best ways to intervene. And while autism is generally a lifelong struggle, there are some reported cases in which kids who were identified as autistic and treated at an early age no longer exhibit symptoms.

THE CURIOUS INCIDENCE

DR. THOMAS INSEL, DIRECTOR OF THE National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), which funds much of the nation's autism research, remembers a time when the disorder was rarely diagnosed. "When my brother trained at Children's Hospital at Harvard in the 1970s, they admitted a child with autism, and the head of the hospital brought all of the residents through to see," says Insel. "He said, 'You've got to see this case; you'll never see it again.'"

Alas, he was mistaken. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about 1 in 166 American children born today will fall somewhere on the autistic spectrum. That's double the rate of 10 years ago and 10 times the estimated incidence a generation ago. While some have doubted the new figures, two surveys released last week by the CDC were in keeping with this shocking incidence.

No one can say why the numbers have soared. Greater awareness and public health campaigns to encourage earlier diagnosis have surely played a part, since in the past, many such children were probably labeled retarded or insane and hidden in institutions. But environmental factors may also be contributing to the spike. To get to the bottom of that mystery and others, federal funding for autism research has more than tripled in the past decade, to $100 million, although it pales in comparison with the estimated $500 million spent on childhood cancers, which affect fewer youngsters.

At the Center for Children's Environmental Health and Disease Prevention at the University of California at Davis, toxicologist Isaac Pessah is studying hair, blood, urine and tissue samples from 700 families with autism. He's testing for 17 metals, traces of pesticides, opioids and other toxicants. In March Pessah caused a stir by releasing a study that showed that even the low level of mercury used in vaccines preserved with thimerosal, long a suspect in autism, can trigger irregularities in the immune-system cells--at least in the test tube. But he does not regard thimerosal (which has been removed from routine childhood vaccines) as anything like a smoking gun. "There's probably no one trigger that's causing autism from the environmental side," says Pessah, "and there's no one gene that's causing it."

Indeed, most researchers believe autism arises from a combination of genetic vulnerabilities and environmental triggers. An identical twin of a child with autism has a 60% to 90% chance of also being affected. And there's little doubt that a vulnerability to ASD runs in some families: the sibling of a child with autism has about a 10% chance of having ASD. Gene scientists working on autism have found suspicious spots on chromosomes 2, 5, 7, 11 and 17, but there are probably dozens of genes at work. "We think there are a number of different autisms, each of which could have a different cause and different genes involved," says David Amaral, research director of the MIND (Medical Investigation of Neurodevelopmental Disorders) Institute, also at U.C. Davis.

Amaral is heading MIND's efforts to assemble a database of clinical, behavioral and genetic information on 1,800 autistic kids. One goal is to clearly define autism subtypes. "It's hard to do the genetics if you're talking about four or five different syndromes," says NIMH chief Insel. "Does the presence of seizures define a separate illness? What about the kids who seem to develop normally for the first year and a half and then regress--is that a separate thing?" And what about the large number of autistic kids who have serious gastrointestinal problems and the many with immune dysfunctions--are they distinct subtypes?

Amaral and colleague Judy Van de Water believe they are onto a major discovery about the origins of at least one type of autism--a strongly familial variety. They have detected aberrant antibodies in the blood of kids from families with a pattern of ASD and, significantly, in mothers with more than one autistic child. "These antibodies are actually raised against proteins in the fetal brain," says Amaral, who recently submitted a paper on the discovery. The working hypothesis is that these antibodies may alter brain development in ways that lead to autism. If correct, the finding could lead to a maternal blood test and the use of a therapy called plasmapheresis to clear antibodies from the mother's blood. "You get a sense of the excitement," says Amaral, "if you could prevent, say, 20% of kids from getting autism. But we don't want to raise false hopes."

THE AUTISTIC BRAIN

WHETHER THE CAUSE IS MATERNAL antibodies, heavy metals or something else, there is no question that the brains of young children with autism have unusual features. To begin with, they tend to be too big. In studies based on magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) and basic tape-measure readings, neuroscientist Eric Courchesne at Children's Hospital of San Diego showed that while children with autism are born with ordinary-size brains, they experience a rapid expansion by age 2--particularly in the frontal lobes. By age 4, says Courchesne, autistic children tend to have brains the size of a normal 13-year-old. This aberrant growth is even more pronounced in girls, he says, although for reasons that remain mysterious, only 1 out of 5 children with autism is female. More recent studies by Amaral and others have found that the amygdala, an area associated with social behavior, is also oversize, a finding Amaral believes is related to the high levels of anxiety seen in as many as 80% of people with autism.

Harvard pediatric neurologist Dr. Martha Herbert reported last year that the excess white matter in autistic brains has a specific distribution: local areas tend to be overconnected, while links between more distant regions of the brain are weak. The brain's right and left hemispheres are also poorly connected. It's as if there are too many competing local services but no long distance.

This observation jibes neatly with imaging studies that look at live brain activity in autistic people. Studies using functional MRI show a lack of coordination among brain regions, says Marcel Just, director of Carnegie Mellon's Center for Cognitive Brain Imaging in Pittsburgh, Pa. Just has scanned dozens of 15- to 35-year-old autistic people with IQs in the normal range, giving them thinking tasks as he monitors their brain activity. "One thing you see," says Just, "is that [activity in] different areas is not going up and down at the same time. There's a lack of synchronization, sort of like a difference between a jam session and a string quartet. In autism, each area does its own thing."

What remains unclear is whether the interconnectivity problem is the result of autism or its cause. Perhaps all that excess wiring is like the extra blood vessels around the heart of a person who has suffered a heart attack--the body's attempt to route around a problem. Or perhaps the abnormal growth of the brain has to do with the immune system; researchers at Johns Hopkins have found signs that autistic brains have chronic inflammation. "It's impossible to tell the chicken from the egg at this point," Just says.

Autistic people have been shown to use their brains in unusual ways: they memorize alphabet characters in a part of the brain that ordinarily processes shapes. They tend to use the visual centers in the back of the brain for tasks usually handled by the prefrontal cortex. They often look at the mouth instead of the eyes of someone who is speaking. Their focus, says psychologist Ami Klin of Yale's Child Study Center, is "not on the social allegiances--for example, the longing gaze of a mother--but physical allegiances--a mouth that moves."

Do these differences reflect fundamental pathology, or are they downstream effects of some more basic problem? No one knows. But the fact that early intervention brings better results for children with ASD could be a clue that some of the odd brain anatomy and activity are secondary--and perhaps even preventable. Studies that look at whether early therapy might help normalize the brain are beginning at York University in Toronto, but results are probably years away.

AUTISM FROM THE INSIDE

IN THE MEANTIME, 300,000 SCHOOL-AGE American children and many adults are attempting to get through daily life with autism. The world has tended to hear from those who are highest functioning, like Temple Grandin, the author and Colorado State University professor of livestock behavior known for designing humane slaughterhouses. But the voices of those more severely affected are beginning to be heard as well. Such was the case with Sue Rubin, 27, a college student from Whittier, Calif., who has no functional speech and matches most people's stereotyped image of a retarded person; yet she was able to write the narration for the Oscar-nominated documentary about her life, Autism Is a World.

What such individuals have to say about their experience is offering new clues to their condition. It also conforms remarkably to what scientists see inside their brains. By and large, people with ASD have difficulty bringing different cognitive functions together in an integrated way. There is a tendency to hyperfocus on detail and miss the big picture. Coordinating volition with movement and sensation can be difficult for some. Chandima Rajapatirana, an autistic writer from Potomac, Md., offers this account: "Helplessly I sit while Mom calls me to come. I know what I must do, but often I can't get up until she says, 'Stand up,'" he writes. "[The] knack of knowing where my body is does not come easy for me. Interestingly I do not know if I am sitting or standing. I am not aware of my body unless it is touching something ... Your hand on mine lets me know where my hand is. Jarring my legs by walking tells me I am alive."

Such descriptions shed light on seemingly self-destructive behavior like biting, scratching, spinning and head banging. For people like Rajapatirana, banging against a wall can be a useful way to tell, quite literally, where their head is at. "Before we extinguish [such behaviors], we need to understand what they are telling us," writes Judith Bluestone, a Seattle-based therapist who is autistic, in The Fabric of Autism.

In his new book Send in the Idiots, British journalist Kamran Nazeer, who is also autistic, describes the need for repetitive motions or words as a search for "local coherence" in a world full of jarring randomness. He also conveys the social difficulties: "Striking up conversations with strangers," he writes, "is an autistic person's version of extreme sports." Indeed, at a recent retreat for people with ASD, attendees wore colored tags indicating their comfort level with spontaneous conversation: red meant don't approach, yellow meant talk if we've already met, green indicated, "I'd love to talk, but I'm not good at initiating."

Perhaps the worst fate for a person with ASD is to have a lively intelligence trapped in a body that makes it difficult for others to see that the lights are on. Neuroscientist Michael Merzenich at the University of California, San Francisco, studied an autistic boy who is unable to speak or even sustain his attention to a task for more than a few moments, and yet is aware of his condition and writes remarkable poetry. How many other autistic kids, Merzenich wonders, "are living in a well where no one can hear them"?

Luckily for Hannah, her voice and thoughts are being heard. Since learning to type, she has begun to speak a few words reliably--"yes," "no" and the key word "I"--to express her desires. All this seems miraculous to her parents. "I was told to give up and get on with my life," says her mother. Now she and her husband are thinking about saving for college.

With reporting by Dan Cray/Los Angeles

Click to Print Find this article at:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...191843,00.html
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旧 Oct 30th, 2008, 19:22   只看该作者   #69
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这是您对自闭症不了解。自闭症的诊断标准虽然不是很明确(有judgement call在里面),但也不能说每个人都有自闭症。您是把内向的性格(introversion)跟一个严重的由于神经系统失调导致的发育障碍(pervasive developmental disorder)病变混淆了。

如果...
你说的有道理, 我也承认对自闭症不懂。不过这话可是孩子被诊断自闭症的父母跟我说的, 我也吓了一跳,不过我也没说每个孩子都有自闭症, 而是我说或多或少有自闭症的表现,不好意思, 又是我没表达清楚, 语文基础太差。
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旧 Oct 30th, 2008, 21:15   只看该作者   #70
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默认

三岁之前的孩子很多是一个人玩的,这跟自闭无关,甚至都不能说内向,随着年龄的增长,小孩会改变。
我知道的自闭的孩子的家长,开始虽然觉得孩子性格有点问题,但并没有意识到有自闭症,甚至学校指出自闭倾向之后,虽然很焦虑,但心里还多少有些不爽,没有足够的重视。
还有我知道的两年自闭症还有个共同点:家长无微不至的照顾,孩子似乎是父母的整个世界。
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旧 Oct 30th, 2008, 21:35   只看该作者   #71
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小孩的自闭症很大可能是因为自己的父母给打疫苗,打预防针而造成的。各种疫苗里面含有
水银(汞)的保鲜剂(Thimerosal(汞硫代水楊酸鈉),一種含汞的保存劑,自1930年代起即被用於疫苗,以防止細菌及黴菌的孳生。但在1999年,美國食品藥物管理局指出多次注射含thimerosal的疫苗可能會在嬰...
现在儿童疫苗都不加汞了。

"Happiness is an attitude. We either make ourselves miserable, or happy and strong. The amount of work is the same." ~ Francesca Reigler
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旧 Oct 31st, 2008, 03:09   只看该作者   #72
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几个月大的小孩喝的是你的母乳。哪里来汞?疫苗是小孩汞的主要来源,一出生打一针,2,4,6月继续打。而这个时候正是小孩的大脑发育黄金时期。小孩脑门没有闭合前,你算算打过多少预防针吧。
很好奇地问一下: 你家孩子打疫苗吗?
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旧 Oct 31st, 2008, 05:37   只看该作者   #73
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默认

无聊。又来了。

不要随便传播一些道听途说的东西,害人害己。
记住,你将来也会有小孩子的,如果你不打算要下一代,你的亲戚朋友也会有的,你真的要用你的所谓疫苗理论去告诉他们马?

望superobot好自为之。

此帖于 Oct 31st, 2008 11:46 被 kakevin2000 编辑。 原因: not lz...should be superobot..
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旧 Oct 31st, 2008, 11:18   只看该作者   #74
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无聊。又来了。

不要随便传播一些道听途说的东西,害人害己。
记住,你将来也会有小孩子的,如果你不打算要下一代,你的亲戚朋友也会有的,你真的要用你的所谓疫苗理论去告诉他们马?

望lz好自为之。
楼主没提疫苗的事。
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旧 Oct 31st, 2008, 11:47   只看该作者   #75
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楼主没提疫苗的事。
sorry i meant superobot.....updated my post.
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感谢 kakevin2000
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sage (Oct 31st, 2008)
旧 Nov 13th, 2008, 10:36   只看该作者   #76
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我个人身边有两个家庭的小孩被诊断为自闭症。 你们呢?愿意的随便聊聊这个话题。
目的是想知道这个是不是一个值得思考的问题。
另, 个人认为自闭症也不是什么问题, 没有任何针对自闭症的负面的东西。
范围限于北美华人,谢谢...
朋友的朋友有一个自闭症孩子。
小孩子我见过,如果不知道她有自闭症,你会认为她就是一没什么礼貌的普通孩子。
孩子的父亲在小孩确诊后扔下妻女回了中国,并另找了一个。钱倒是每月寄来。孩子母亲独立抚养了孩子5年后,找了个男友,计划如果治不好,就把孩子交给政府了事。
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旧 Nov 13th, 2008, 10:45   只看该作者   #77
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朋友的朋友有一个自闭症孩子。
小孩子我见过,如果不知道她有自闭症,你会认为她就是一没什么礼貌的普通孩子。
孩子的父亲在小孩确诊后扔下妻女回了中国,并另找了一个。钱倒是每月寄来。孩子母亲独立抚养了孩子5年后,找了个男友,计划如果治不好,就把孩子交给政府了事。
什么意思?怎么交给政府?
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旧 Nov 14th, 2008, 17:06   只看该作者   #78
我不想太好
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默认

其实我觉得很多华人已经很注意了。
我家老二岁9个月了,不怎么讲话,我从2岁3个月的时候开始忙活他的事,2岁4个月的时候做了语言测试,之后和老大我们三个一起回中国3个月,就为了给他一个中文的环境,但我们家乡也是讲方言的,效果不明显,还吃了许多的牛奶,(算了,这都不说了,也不想去查肾了)。幸运的是,回来后,又跑去了一家专门的语言培训学校,被告知按今年的新政策,他可以马上入学,现在上的半天,一周五天,效果应该说还是很明显的。
两天前来了一个REPORT,说他在学校里:enjoys quiet play,quietly enjoys playing at sand,enjpys car &truck play.我一看又蒙了,完了,连教师也这么说了。其实这次回国之前我经常狠狠地对照那些个自闭症的标准一一核实,应该不是,但也不确信,关键是不说话啊,
今天上午语言专家又来上门家访,我就说这些特征可不可能就是他的天性,专家居然说,这原来应该算是优点,她说这表明他可以自己处理自己的情绪,可以自己去探索,如果没有这些技能的孩子,就会需要别人的帮助,如果得不到可能去做一些破坏性的行为得到别人的重视。(待续吧,有人看的话)
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旧 Nov 14th, 2008, 17:49   只看该作者   #79
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其实我觉得很多华人已经很注意了。
我家老二岁9个月了,不怎么讲话,我从2岁3个月的时候开始忙活他的事,2岁4个月的时候做了语言测试,之后和老大我们三个一起回中国3个月,就为了给他一个中文的环境,但我们家乡也是讲方言的,效果不明显,还吃了许多的牛奶,(算了,这都不说了,也不想去查肾了)。幸运的是,回...
看着,关注.

人到万难须放胆,事当两可要平心
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旧 Nov 14th, 2008, 17:55   只看该作者   #80
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其实我觉得很多华人已经很注意了。
我家老二岁9个月了,不怎么讲话,我从2岁3个月的时候开始忙活他的事,2岁4个月的时候做了语言测试,之后和老大我们三个一起回中国3个月,就为了给他一个中文的环境,但我们家乡也是讲方言的,效果不明显,还吃了许多的牛奶,(算了,这都不说了,也不想去查肾了)。幸运的是,回...
不急,可能是性格问题,爸爸是不是不爱说话?如果是,发现早治疗效果不错的

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所有时间均为格林尼治时间 -4。现在的时间是 02:27

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