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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 16:18   只看该作者   #81
william06
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作者: 老周 查看帖子
老维,
我指的是不同色彩空间之间的显示切换,没有牵涉到实际转换。
哦,没有实际转换应该不会损失细节,估计是cosco那边流程有所不同...

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作者: zayne 查看帖子
关于这一条是肯定的,不能管理两次。
如果你只是按proof效果调图,没有转换,打印时就应该是用打印机管理色...
恩,所有的设备都一样.如果不小心打开adobe gamma,然后再加载个比如color vision的颜色管理软件,屏幕的颜色会很难看  
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 16:23   只看该作者   #82
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默认

老Z,

还是不明白。

打个比方,我有一张图,不论是什么吧,夸张点的话,我要打一张纯色的色卡,比如我在屏幕上看用显示器的Profile看得到满意的效果后,每个像素都是(33,33,33),然后用一个打印Profile来做Soft Proofing,发现颜色不对了,我使劲调到跟原来颜色差不多的,一看每个像素都是(66,66,66)。于是我把这个每个像素都是(66,66,66)的文件拿去打印了。

按照我的理解,这台打印机会把(66,66,66)的颜色打印出来看上去像我在屏幕上看到的(33,33,33)的颜色。

打印机本身是一个设备,就是把数据文件变成纸上的图片。他的打印能力,就是把(66,66,66)的数值打印成显示器上(33,33,33)效果的能力。

如果我已经把文件变成(66,66,66)转不转Profile交给这台打印机,它也只能打印成在显示器上(33,33,33)的效果。
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 16:54   只看该作者   #83
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作者: 老周 查看帖子
老Z,
打印机本身是一个设备,就是把数据文件变成纸上的图片。他的打印能力,就是把(66,66,66)的数值打印成显示器上(33,33,33)效果的能力。

如果我已经把文件变成(66,66,66)转不转Profile交给这台打印机,它也只能打印成在显示器上(33,33,33)的效果。
老周,问题就在这里.如果这个照片是直接输入打印机,那么打印机(66,66,66)和显示器(33,33,33)相同.但是如果打印提供商按照sRGB定义来看你的照片,再把你的打印机(66,66,66)当作sRGB(66,66,66)处理,转换成真正打印机色域时可能变成打印机(132,132,132)了[夸张了点],那么你看出来得再和显示器比,就#$@%&^了 

外面商业打印,如果你不说,他缺省就把你的照片按sRGB看待.即使说了,也可能有时被操作人员误处理~~

还是买个打印机,自己打印最保险 

此帖于 Jun 26th, 2007 17:38 被 william06 编辑。
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 18:12   只看该作者   #84
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作者: william06 查看帖子
老周,问题就在这里.如果这个照片是直接输入打印机,那么打印机(66,66,66)和显示器(33,33...
老维,

我开始明白你的意思了,就是说虽然我按照他们打印机的Profile调了图,还得转到这个Profile上去,或者说我要加载这个色彩空间的信息在我的图里,等于告诉他们,我是按照他们打印机的色彩空间调图的,别往别的地方想。

是吧?

这个问题,我还会继续实践下去,下次我挑一张图,分别转到Adobe RGB,sRGB,显示器Profile,和打印Profile,一起送过去打印,不要色彩管理,看看最后什么结果。
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 18:14   只看该作者   #85
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默认

买个打印机最痛的地方就是担心墨头干,如果我在东西沿海,早就上个Epson 4800了。
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 21:09   只看该作者   #86
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作者: william06 查看帖子
老周,问题就在这里.如果这个照片是直接输入打印机,那么打印机(66,66,66)和显示器(33,33...
完全同意。关键就看他们打开图时是use embeded profile, 还是convert to working space or discard。如果是后两种,就会出现威廉说的。


我今天下午准备去订书针店的 print center, 用他们的HP DesignJet 130nr 打张大图。跑去问print profile,大娘小伙都不懂。只好回家在hp网站下载驱动安装程序,得到该机profiles。
调了一张图,转换,送去告知关闭打印机color management,明天看结果。不过我已经在他们显示器上看了一眼,跟我在家看到的基本一样。他们用的paintshop pro软件,打开文件时没有提示,估计默认是使用图片内置profile。

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作者: 老周 查看帖子
有些打印Profile确实跟显示Profile变化不大,同学们,如果你们试试Vistek网站上公布的他们的毛面打印Profile对付一些...
回家做的另一件事是去vistek.ca,下载了那个Matte ICC Profile,显示是GM Frontier1_G...icc, 对吧?

设置后一看color proof,色彩又黄又暗,试试调整,完全不能调出正常的色彩。

结论:老周被vistek.ca 的ICC害了。
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 21:48   只看该作者   #87
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作者: zayne 查看帖子
完全同意。关键就看他们打开图时是use embeded profile, 还是convert to working space or discard。如果是后两种,就会出现�...
同情老周一下

试试costco的吧,我觉得他们的活还是挺不错的
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 22:18   只看该作者   #88
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默认

我要打印这幅图,可以假设图中某处的颜色是Adobe RGB里的(33,33,33),比如那个最红的树叶,得看上去是现在这个样子。
pic.1
http://www.pbase.com/image/81229744.jpg


设置print profile,soft proof,看到这样
pic.2
http://www.pbase.com/image/81230239.jpg


我保持soft proof模式,调图到和图一样,然那个红色看起来还像adobe‘33’,
pic.3
http://www.pbase.com/image/81229748.jpg


关掉soft proof,就是这样,那个红色实际是打印机的‘66’了。
pic.4
http://www.pbase.com/image/81229746.jpg


如果在店里用embeded profile打开,看到的红色还是打印机‘66’,就对了,打出来照片看着就是接近adobe‘33’。

如果不用embeded profile 或者转到adobe working space, 就会这样,
pic.5
http://www.pbase.com/image/81229753.jpg
打印机66被当成adobe '66',相当于打印机'132',结果你得到照片接近adobe '99'.


我再用图一试vistec 的ICC,结果如下,怎么都调不好了
pic.6
http://www.pbase.com/image/81229859.jpg
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 23:49   只看该作者   #89
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作者: 老周 查看帖子
老维,
我开始明白你的意思了,就是说虽然我按照他们打印机的Profile调了图,还得转到这个Profile上去,或者说...
俺也开始同情老周了,这里送打印经常碰到这类问题,很多都是打印操作人员不熟悉给整的
老Z说的方法不错,先看看他们用什么机器,然后指定用那个profile 
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旧 Jun 26th, 2007, 23:49   只看该作者   #90
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作者: zayne 查看帖子
我要打印这幅图,可以假设图中某处的颜色是Adobe RGB里的(33,33,33),比如那个最红的树叶,得看上去是现在这个样��...
这个很形象 
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 00:11   只看该作者   #91
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看来我真的要去试试Costco了。

老Z,老维,

谢谢你们的同情,当我用Vistek的ICC一看,差点吐了。调的眼前都开始发黑了,才勉强看的过去,就这么累的活我干了两晚上,回头一看那堆片子,S的心都有。
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 08:29   只看该作者   #92
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看来我真的要去试试Costco了。

老Z,老维,

谢谢你们的同情,当我用Vistek的ICC一看,差点吐了。调的眼前都开...
别客气。有的时候,感觉对方不做颜色管理会更好些。。。
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 12:11   只看该作者   #93
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默认

看来痛经的人还有老Z, 威廉好像不怎么痛。
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 12:16   只看该作者   #94
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作者: 老总 查看帖子
看来痛经的人还有老Z, 威廉好像不怎么痛。
俺就玩玩家里那个4x6的打印机,很少出去打印大图

老周和老Z比较有追求 
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 12:52   只看该作者   #95
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默认

我同意老Z的看法,基本上原件应该用RGB98来处理和保存,尽管目前大部分monitor在sRGB.
外出打印前,我会用soft proofing看一下,但我想大部分情况下我不会去调gamma warning的,1 是太麻烦,2是把色彩比例调顺了,图的细节也会丢失不少(见老Z pic.3 和 pic.2的比较,我自己也试过,结果和老Z的相似)。
我是倾向于convert to打印机的icc的,现在costco网上的default就是不让他再处理的。好处是,如果对方不犯错,至少出的图是和monitor上一致的。
如果,不convert to打印机的icc的话,原理上他处理也是用同一个icc, 可问题是他打开的时候,不清楚他是如何处理我原来profile的,这样,结果也就不明确了。
外面目前的打印机的color space 都比sRGB要小,尤其是在比较高的 Luminance的时候蓝绿色损失的比较大,结论是自己上好的inkjet打印机(至少要比外面的好)。
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 15:05   只看该作者   #96
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我同意老Z的看法,基本上原件应该用RGB98来处理和保存,尽管目前大部分monitor在sRGB.
外出打印前,我会用soft proof...
还是lab的打印机效果要好很多
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 17:10   只看该作者   #97
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看来痛经的人还有老Z, 威廉好像不怎么痛。
今天取回打印件,应该算比较理想,比color proof 下看的略好一些。这个问题,我暂时可以不痛了。
打印的24x18",$18,质量中上,主要是纸比较低档。
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 17:16   只看该作者   #98
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今天取回打印件,应该算比较理想,比color proof 下看的略好一些。这个问题,我暂时可以不痛了。
打印的24x18&quot...
photolab还是大幅打印机?
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 17:27   只看该作者   #99
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作者: zayne 查看帖子
今天取回打印件,应该算比较理想,比color proof 下看的略好一些。这个问题,我暂时可以不痛了。
打印的24x18&quot...
$18, 应该很好了吧 
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旧 Jun 27th, 2007, 21:11   只看该作者   #100
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photolab还是大幅打印机?
应该是HP DesignJet 130nr, 老Z上面说过。
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