老鱼及各位知道的朋友，问一个关于被 fire 的话题。

瓜子 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 16:19

公司里要fire一个人，它有什么具体的程序？是不是说炒就炒，没有警世什么的？

如果被这样炒了，能不能合法地维护自己的权利？

谢谢。

深海老鱼 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 16:46

一个公司fire员工可以有许多合法的理由. 一般来说应该有一定时间的预警, 但某些公司或者对某些敏感的岗位, 公司宁可付一定的补偿而让员工立即走人.

你的合法权益如果受到侵犯, 当然可以去争取回来. 最直接的办法是到工会或劳工部申诉.

瓜子 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 18:13

谢谢。继续请教：

就是想知道他们如何预警的，就是说他们“必须怎么做”才符合加拿大的法律？
比如，给你书面警告什么的，不知道具体的预警。

引用:

作者: 深海老鱼

一个公司fire员工可以有许多合法的理由. 一般来说应该有一定时间的预警, 但某些公司或者对某些敏感的岗位, 公司宁可付一定的补偿而让员工立即走人.

你的合法权益如果受到侵犯, 当然可以去争取回来. 最直接的办法是到工会或劳工部申诉.

深海老鱼 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 18:28

引用:

作者: 瓜子

谢谢。继续请教：

就是想知道他们如何预警的，就是说他们“必须怎么做”才符合加拿大的法律？
比如，给你书面警告什么的，不知道具体的预警。

如果说违反了劳工纪律一般来讲会收到一张书面警告. 如果没有提前来说要开除,一般来说也好给你termination pay. 如果有重大错误,可以当场开除,不用负责赔偿.

瓜子 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 21:33

不好意思，我继续发问。

如果排除大的错误，是不是公司“必须”（而不是一般来讲）有书面的警告？

另外，开除对当事人有什么影响没有？因为我公司进来开除过几个菲律宾人，好像没有什么警告。

引用:

作者: 深海老鱼

如果说违反了劳工纪律一般来讲会收到一张书面警告. 如果没有提前来说要开除,一般来说也好给你termination pay. 如果有重大错误,可以当场开除,不用负责赔偿.

滴水成冰 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 22:30

按要求，公司应该有一次口头警告，指出错误，要求改善，如果无明显进步，公司会再次书面警告，且员工需在书面警告上签字，在限期内还是无明显改善，则可正式FIRE。如果公司是LAY OFF 员工，只要付足费用，无需警告。

Ronan · Nov 22nd, 2004, 22:49

No. the employer is not so serious. They just fire you and at the same time give your a reason. If you think the reason is not reasonable, you can sue them. But usually it's not easy. The employer is more experienced than you.

滴水成冰 · Nov 22nd, 2004, 23:10

引用:

作者: Ronan

No. the employer is not so serious. They just fire you and at the same time give your a reason. If you think the reason is not reasonable, you can sue them. But usually it's not easy. The employer is more experienced than you.

这就是问题的关键了。如果雇主不按规矩做事，员工大可以打官司。其实很多时不是雇主有经验，而是员工以为雇主一定比你强。如果是大公司，有专门的管人事的，一定照足规矩做事。而小公司，常常那个雇主自己说了算，很多时他懂的不一定比你多。合理争取自己的合法权益是很必要的。千万不要以为土生土长的就一定比你懂得多。
举个小例子，我公司新来的部门经理，号称在几家大公司做了10几年，非要说员工有权
享受至少一星期的有薪病假，还说她参加过政府部门的讲座，结果到处打电话问政府的结果，还是我说的对。

wksw · Nov 23rd, 2004, 09:51

(It's worth to read even reading english maybe difficult for someone)

Ten Common Misconceptions About Being Fired
by Howard A. Levitt and Marsha M. Lindsay

Being fired is never easy on an employee. Regrettably, many who lose their jobs make their situation worse by not knowing or finding out about their legal rights.

Canadian courts have become more pro-employee in recent years, which is all the more reason for employees to learn more about suing for wrongful dismissal. Most have good cases.

Here are ten myths which we think employees need to avoid buying into:
1. My employer can fire me "at will": Firing employees on the spot and without notice is an American concept which does not apply in Canada. Unless they have cause, which is a high hurdle, Canadian companies must give employees reasonable severance pay, which is measured in months, even years, not weeks.

2. I cannot afford to hire a lawyer: Quite the opposite is true. Most employees cannot afford not to get legal advice. Wrongful dismissal cases are common these days, so most employees, at whatever level, obtain advice after being fired. Most lawyers, if presented with a good case, will agree to bill the dismissed employee at the end out of the settlement.

3. There is no option but to accept fundamental changes to my job: If the company makes substantial changes to your duties or to how you are paid, you may have a claim for constructive dismissal. This means you could resign if you disagree and sue for wrongful dismissal damages.

4. I'm entitled to a month of notice per year of service: There are no hard and fast rules about how much notice employees must receive. Some short service employees get more than a month per year, while other, especially long service employees, will get less. Wrongful dismissal cases depend on their facts, so it's worth getting expert advice.

5. The company has alleged cause, so I have no right to damages: Cause has become increasingly harder to prove. Employers often allege cause to avoid paying severance. If the allegations are unfounded, your claim is actually stronger, since the courts frown on this so-called bad faith manner of termination, and award even more severance pay to punish the employer.

6. I've signed an employment contract so cannot sue: A contract limiting what you can sue for is not an automatic bar to a lawsuit. Numerous legal defences are available, so a skillful lawyer can often successfully challenge the contract's validity, and the court will award damages as though the contract was never signed.

7. I have no claim since I've received the employment standards payout: Statutory termination and severance pay are minimum legal requirements, setting the floor but not the ceiling. Employees often mistakenly think the employment standards payout is a cap to their damages claim, but the value is virtually always much greater.

8. I was fired within the first three months, so I won't get anything if I sue: Employees are not automatically on probation, and they need to agree to this when signing on to take the job. Even if probation is agreed to, the company will still need cause to fire you unless there is a contract specifically limiting severance.

9. Starting a wrongful dismissal claim is difficult: Any lawyer with a specialty in employment law can file a lawsuit with relative ease. Recent changes to the court rules have streamlined the way that courts handle these cases, so quicker results are now common.

10. Employers deliberately drag out legal actions to squeeze employees: It's rare these days for a company to prolong a case regardless of the merits. Employers will be punished by the courts, and employees will be rewarded, if unfounded cases are taken to trial and the employer is seen to have deliberately delayed the employee's recovery.

Nov 22nd, 2004, 16:19	#1
瓜子 Senior Member 注册日期: Aug 2004 帖子: 171	老鱼及各位知道的朋友，问一个关于被 fire 的话题。公司里要fire一个人，它有什么具体的程序？是不是说炒就炒，没有警世什么的？如果被这样炒了，能不能合法地维护自己的权利？谢谢。
瓜子 Senior Member 注册日期: Aug 2004 帖子: 171

Nov 22nd, 2004, 16:46	只看该作者 #2
深海老鱼非法律界人士注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 2,242 精华:5 声望: 4659735	一个公司fire员工可以有许多合法的理由. 一般来说应该有一定时间的预警, 但某些公司或者对某些敏感的岗位, 公司宁可付一定的补偿而让员工立即走人. 你的合法权益如果受到侵犯, 当然可以去争取回来. 最直接的办法是到工会或劳工部申诉.
深海老鱼非法律界人士注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 2,242 精华:5 声望: 4659735

Nov 22nd, 2004, 22:30	只看该作者 #6
滴水成冰 spring is coming 注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 269 声望: 52	按要求，公司应该有一次口头警告，指出错误，要求改善，如果无明显进步，公司会再次书面警告，且员工需在书面警告上签字，在限期内还是无明显改善，则可正式FIRE。如果公司是LAY OFF 员工，只要付足费用，无需警告。
滴水成冰 spring is coming 注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 269 声望: 52

Nov 23rd, 2004, 09:51	只看该作者 #9
wksw Member 注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 78 声望: -22	Ten Common Misconceptions About Being Fired(ZT) (It's worth to read even reading english maybe difficult for someone) Ten Common Misconceptions About Being Fired by Howard A. Levitt and Marsha M. Lindsay Being fired is never easy on an employee. Regrettably, many who lose their jobs make their situation worse by not knowing or finding out about their legal rights. Canadian courts have become more pro-employee in recent years, which is all the more reason for employees to learn more about suing for wrongful dismissal. Most have good cases. Here are ten myths which we think employees need to avoid buying into: 1. My employer can fire me "at will": Firing employees on the spot and without notice is an American concept which does not apply in Canada. Unless they have cause, which is a high hurdle, Canadian companies must give employees reasonable severance pay, which is measured in months, even years, not weeks. 2. I cannot afford to hire a lawyer: Quite the opposite is true. Most employees cannot afford not to get legal advice. Wrongful dismissal cases are common these days, so most employees, at whatever level, obtain advice after being fired. Most lawyers, if presented with a good case, will agree to bill the dismissed employee at the end out of the settlement. 3. There is no option but to accept fundamental changes to my job: If the company makes substantial changes to your duties or to how you are paid, you may have a claim for constructive dismissal. This means you could resign if you disagree and sue for wrongful dismissal damages. 4. I'm entitled to a month of notice per year of service: There are no hard and fast rules about how much notice employees must receive. Some short service employees get more than a month per year, while other, especially long service employees, will get less. Wrongful dismissal cases depend on their facts, so it's worth getting expert advice. 5. The company has alleged cause, so I have no right to damages: Cause has become increasingly harder to prove. Employers often allege cause to avoid paying severance. If the allegations are unfounded, your claim is actually stronger, since the courts frown on this so-called bad faith manner of termination, and award even more severance pay to punish the employer. 6. I've signed an employment contract so cannot sue: A contract limiting what you can sue for is not an automatic bar to a lawsuit. Numerous legal defences are available, so a skillful lawyer can often successfully challenge the contract's validity, and the court will award damages as though the contract was never signed. 7. I have no claim since I've received the employment standards payout: Statutory termination and severance pay are minimum legal requirements, setting the floor but not the ceiling. Employees often mistakenly think the employment standards payout is a cap to their damages claim, but the value is virtually always much greater. 8. I was fired within the first three months, so I won't get anything if I sue: Employees are not automatically on probation, and they need to agree to this when signing on to take the job. Even if probation is agreed to, the company will still need cause to fire you unless there is a contract specifically limiting severance. 9. Starting a wrongful dismissal claim is difficult: Any lawyer with a specialty in employment law can file a lawsuit with relative ease. Recent changes to the court rules have streamlined the way that courts handle these cases, so quicker results are now common. 10. Employers deliberately drag out legal actions to squeeze employees: It's rare these days for a company to prolong a case regardless of the merits. Employers will be punished by the courts, and employees will be rewarded, if unfounded cases are taken to trial and the employer is seen to have deliberately delayed the employee's recovery.
wksw Member 注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 78 声望: -22

Nov 22nd, 2004, 22:49	只看该作者 #7
Ronan Buswell Dental Centre 注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 146 声望: 0	No. the employer is not so serious. They just fire you and at the same time give your a reason. If you think the reason is not reasonable, you can sue them. But usually it's not easy. The employer is more experienced than you.