买GIC 好还是买基金好？看一看两者在纳税上的区别

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 00:40

I have read quite a few questions about buy GIC vs. buy mutual fund and the questions about GIC rate. In addition to other benefit of a mutual fund over GIC, there is also a huge tax benefit on equity fund. Here is the illustration.

Assumptions:

Return = 5%
Tax rate = 40%
Capital = $100,000

Interest
Suppose you use $100,000 to buy GIC at 5%
A year later, you made $5,000 interest
Doesn’t matter if you take out the money or not (For example, if you bought a 5 years GIC, after one year, you can’t take it out), you still get a tax slip from the bank to report your interest income of $5,000
Your tax payment is $5,000x 40% = $2000
Your net gain = $3000

Capital Gain
Suppose you use $100,000 to buy mutual fund unit at $10/unit
You get 10,000 units
A year later, the unit price of the mutual fund that you bought increased from $10 per unit to $10.50 per unit.
Now you made $5,000 (10,000 x $0.50)
If you decide not to take out the money, you don’t have to pay tax; unless the fund company made a capital gain distribution (means they pass the gain to the investors).

If you do decide to take out the $5,000, it means you will need to sell 476 units to get $5,000. ($5,000 divided by $10.50)
$5000 = 476 units
Among 476 units, your capital gain portion is actually only $238 (476 x $0.5)
Because capital gain is taxed at 50%, this means that only half of your capital gain, which is $119, is taxable
The tax you will have to pay is $119 x 40% = $47.6. Let’s round it up to $48.
Your net gain is $5,000 - $48 = $4952

Please note that not all the mutual funds are equity funds. Some of them are dividend fund, which also provide a tax advantage. Some of them are balanced funds which have both equity stocks and fixed income stuff such as bonds or money market funds. Some of them are fixed income funds which do not provide the same type of tax advantage of equity funds. If your money is inside of RRSP, the tax treatment of any mutual fund is the same. The above illustration only works when your investment is outside of RRSP.

qiegao · Aug 29th, 2006, 01:17

引用:

作者: dreamchaser999

I have read quite a few questions about buy GIC vs. buy mutual fund and the questions about GIC rate. In addition to other benefit of a mutual fund ov...

GIC的税这么高阿？TERM DEPOSIT和GIC的税率一样吗？

1年1万的GIC收入，要交4000的税？天那。。可以用信用卡付吗呵呵。。CRA这么黑阿。。

士嘉堡乡政府 · Aug 29th, 2006, 01:51

引用:

作者: dreamchaser999

If you do decide to take out the $5,000, it means you will need to sell 476 units to get $5,000. ($5,000 divided by $10.50)
$5000 = 476 units
Among 476 units, your capital gain portion is actually only $238 (476 x $0.5)
Because capital gain is taxed at 50%, this means that only half of your capital gain, which is $119, is taxable
The tax you will have to pay is $119 x 40% = $47.6. Let’s round it up to $48.
Your net gain is $5,000 - $48 = $4952

假设余下的 10,000-476 =9524 units 保持 $10.50不变，比如持续了一年，那末一年后，如果你决定卖掉这 9524 units，那末这时候是怎末算的？
是不是 9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7，这个应该算作你的 capital gain？还是 9524 x $10.5 = $10002 算作你的投资本金？如果 $4677.7 算作你的 capital gain，你一样要缴 40% 的税，和 GIC 没有区别。
如果在你卖掉余下的 9524 units 时，只按本金计算，那末这里就有一点疑惑，为什末当初在卖掉 476 units 时，要按 476 x $0.5 来计算 capital gain，而在后来卖掉余下的 9524 units，就不用9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7 来计算 capital gain 呢？
外行的疑点问题，谢谢解答。

qiegao · Aug 29th, 2006, 02:17

引用:

作者: 士嘉堡乡政府

假设余下的 10,000-476 =9524 units 保持 $10.50不变，比如持续了一年，那末一年后，如果你决定卖掉这 9524 units，那末这时候是怎末算的？
是不是 9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7，这个应该算作你的 capital gain？还是 9524 x $10.5...

估计意思是，本金就一直在放里边玩，只取出赢来的钱。

六里台 · Aug 29th, 2006, 02:25

引用:

作者: 士嘉堡乡政府

假设余下的 10,000-476 =9524 units 保持 $10.50不变，比如持续了一年，那末一年后，如果你决定卖掉这 9524 units，那末这时候是怎末算的？
是不是 9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7，这个应该算作你的 capital gain？还是 9524 x $10.5...

9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7算作你的 capital gain

区别有二，第一、GIC的gain每年都要认，不管你取不取出来；m fund在你取出来的时候认，起到延期交税的作用；

第二、capital gain 只有50%作为应纳税所得额

强烈建议LZ用中文写，这里有时态的问题，第一遍我都没看懂

magic_tang · Aug 29th, 2006, 03:19

引用:

作者: 六里台

9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7算作你的 capital gain

区别有二，第一、GIC的gain每年都要认，不管你取不取出来；m fund在你取出来的时候认，起到延期交税的作用；

第二、capital gain 只有50%作为应纳税所得额

强烈建议LZ用中文写，这里有时态的问题，...

六子很厉害啊。

股票和基金盈利只要你没有抛出，就不算当年收入纳税。什么时候抛出，盈利的50％算做当年的收入纳税。所以具有延税功能，换言之就是有免税功能，延税即免税。另外如果想募捐，那么可以捐股票，比现金要更合算，可以获得更多的免税额（如果你向可以给你开免税额的机构捐款的话）。具体的要根据具体事例分析。

GIC每年纳税，而且是100％作为当年收入纳税。

我早就说过，有钱最蠢的是不投资，其次就是投资GIC。GIC是最不安全的投资。GIC的利率只有4，刨除通货膨胀，收入很低，如果通货膨胀率高于GIC利率，那么你的投资就是负的，再加上还要交税。选一个稳定增长的基金，收益远远高于GIC。

不要太贪心。投资之神巴菲特坐拥300多亿美元身家，他的投资收益平均到每年也就是20％。

qiegao · Aug 29th, 2006, 03:43

.......

TRADES · Aug 29th, 2006, 09:41

借贵地请教六里台或MAGIC TANG, 如果有部分钱就想短期投资 (一年或两年后兑现), 我知道从税务角度MUTUAL FUND要好些, 但要是考虑到交易手续费呢? 也是一个不小的比例呀. 还是说不同的BROKER手续费有高有低?

taile · Aug 29th, 2006, 10:12

我也正想买点基金呢，但对此不是很懂。
刚开了td waterhouse的帐号，但只是把钱放进去了，还没有买任何东西，不知道买的话怎么操作呢？是去td找一个人帮我买呢还是我自己就可以了，两者有没有费用上的差别阿?

dudu200405 · Aug 29th, 2006, 10:42

引用:

作者: TRADES

借贵地请教六里台或MAGIC TANG, 如果有部分钱就想短期投资 (一年或两年后兑现), 我知道从税务角度MUTUAL FUND要好些, 但要是考虑到交易手续费呢? 也是一个不小的比例呀. 还是说不同的BROKER手续费有高有低?

怎么也得三五年啊，不然卖出的时候手续费基本和受益相等。还不如卖GIC呢！

dudu200405 · Aug 29th, 2006, 10:51

从税务的角度讲，每个家庭的情况都不一样。收入低的情况下买GIC稳稳的拿些收入也未尝不可。
家庭收入比较高又有些闲钱的，长线可以考虑买FUND。但是一定要能承受短线贬值的事实。

FINANCIAL ADVISOR自然希望客户买FUNDS了，他们会有很多COMMISSIONS。

买方是最终承担所有费用和风险的。别太盲目了。我周围很多人都在抱怨自己买的FUNDS如何如何跌.

不服不行 · Aug 29th, 2006, 11:11

引用:

作者: qiegao

GIC的税这么高阿？TERM DEPOSIT和GIC的税率一样吗？

1年1万的GIC收入，要交4000的税？天那。。可以用信用卡付吗呵呵。。CRA这么黑阿。。

看你收入的多少了。如果你年收入三万多，还有一些免税额（比如学费，自雇什么的），现在投资GIC（也就是term deposit）最合算。而且这样能直接增加你手里资本金，而不是减少。所以，如果要想买房买车的，更要投资GIC（注意，其实还有一种活期的GIC，在PC Bank，年利率4％以上，美元可以选ICICI bank，一个月的term deposit年利率5％）。
总之，年收入越少越要买GIC，手里的钱越少越要买GIC，要买房买车更要买GIC。
楼主的比较是有问题的，你有10万，投资GIC，缴税是可能有4000，但你手里的本金是106000。如果你投资MF，缴税确实可能是 $48，但手里的本金只有$4952，买任何大件都需要贷款，还得再背上6％的利息。
而且，买MF有风险，有血本无归的可能性，就是为了分散投资风险，也应该买一些GIC（此处特别推荐PC和ICICI）.
另，你要是特别关注你65岁以后的生活，可以买RRSP里的GIC和MF,这个的避税效果，比单独买MF强多了。

bigLoser · Aug 29th, 2006, 11:35

引用:

作者: magic_tang

六子很厉害啊。

股票和基金盈利只要你没有抛出，就不算当年收入纳税。什么时候抛出，盈利的50％算做当年的收入纳税。所以具有延税功能，换言之就是有免税功能，延税即免税。另外如果想募捐，那么可以捐股票，比现金要更合算，可以获得更多的免税额（如果你向可以给你开免税额的机构捐款的话）。具体的要根据具体事例分...

there are some GIC MF

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 17:44

引用:

作者: 六里台

9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7算作你的 capital gain

区别有二，第一、GIC的gain每年都要认，不管你取不取出来；m fund在你取出来的时候认，起到延期交税的作用；

第二、capital gain 只有50%作为应纳税所得额

强烈建议LZ用中文写，这里有时态的问题，...

Looks like LZ is not refer to me but I am sorry too. I can't use my computer to type Chinese directly on this website. If I need to type in Chinese, I will have to use NJstar to type and then do a copy and paste.

Sherry

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 17:58

引用:

作者: dudu200405

从税务的角度讲，每个家庭的情况都不一样。收入低的情况下买GIC稳稳的拿些收入也未尝不可。
家庭收入比较高又有些闲钱的，长线可以考虑买FUND。但是一定要能承受短线贬值的事实。

FINANCIAL ADVISOR自然希望客户买FUNDS了，他们会有很多COMMISSIONS。

买方是最终承担所有费...

I don't have any problem to disclose my commission when we meet in person. As a matter of fact, if you buy no-load funds, the sales person does not make any commission. I do make an Assets Retaintion fee, which is 0.25% of the assets under my management. This means if you give me $100 to manage for you, after one year, I make $0.25. Is that a lot?

Actually, the way that I am paid means that we are both on the same boat. When you money grow, I make more money. When you lose money, I lose money. When you leave, I make nothing. Therefore, I will try my best to make you making money and to keep you satisfied. Not like salary paid employees, your portfolio performance has nothing to do with their income. That is why you don't get a call from your bank too often regarding your portfolio performance.

Sherry

Sherry

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 18:04

引用:

作者: taile

我也正想买点基金呢，但对此不是很懂。
刚开了td waterhouse的帐号，但只是把钱放进去了，还没有买任何东西，不知道买的话怎么操作呢？是去td找一个人帮我买呢还是我自己就可以了，两者有没有费用上的差别阿?

If you come to us, we can help you and there is no fee. But I can only help you with our funds, not TD's funds.

Sherry

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 18:08

引用:

作者: dudu200405

怎么也得三五年啊，不然卖出的时候手续费基本和受益相等。还不如卖GIC呢！

If you need money within 7 years, you can buy no load funds and you don't have to pay a fee when you sell it.

Also, even with end load funds, you can take out 10% each year without having to pay the fee.

Sherry

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 18:27

引用:

作者: 士嘉堡乡政府

假设余下的 10,000-476 =9524 units 保持 $10.50不变，比如持续了一年，那末一年后，如果你决定卖掉这 9524 units，那末这时候是怎末算的？
是不是 9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7，这个应该算作你的 capital gain？还是 9524 x $10.5...

Yes, you are right. 9524x$0.5 = $4677.7 is your capital gain. Let's round it up to $2648. Remember, only half of it is taxable. Therefore, only $2339 is taxable. Suppose your tax rate is 40%. The tax you will need to pay is $2339 x 40% = $935.6. Let's round it up to $936.

Remember, you already paid $48 a year ago. Now you sold everything and paid another $936 in tax. Your total tax payment amount now is $936+$48=$984.

Remember, when you buy GIC, you have paid $2000 the first year. Therefore, there is still significant tax savings when buy mutual funds.

The conservative party proposed that any capital gain would not be taxable if the investor re-invest it within 6 month. If this bill go through, you don't have to pay any tax when you sold the entire $105,000 but re-invested (bought something else, let's say, a revenue property) within the next 6 month. Pleas note, this is not the case yet but could be true in the future.

I also see a lot of friends talking about the risk of investing in mutual funds. There are a number of ways to overcome this. One is to buy segregated funds which can guarantee your principal up to 100%. Other ways, I will do some illustrations later.

Sherry

dreamchaser999 · Aug 29th, 2006, 19:34

引用:

作者: dudu200405

从税务的角度讲，每个家庭的情况都不一样。收入低的情况下买GIC稳稳的拿些收入也未尝不可。
家庭收入比较高又有些闲钱的，长线可以考虑买FUND。但是一定要能承受短线贬值的事实。

FINANCIAL ADVISOR自然希望客户买FUNDS了，他们会有很多COMMISSIONS。

买方是最终承担所有费...

PS: The 0.25% assets retention fee is paid by the fund company, not by you.

Somebody would argue that it is eventually comes out of clients anyway. You are right but remember, the rate of return (or the fund performance) quoted by the fund company is after all the expenses occured by the fund company, not before.

Sherry

不服不行 · Aug 29th, 2006, 19:54

特别强调一下，买MF有比较大的风险，有血本无归的可能性，就是为了分散投资风险，也应该买一些GIC（此处特别推荐PC和ICICI）.
在PC Bank，活期帐户的年利率为4％以上，本金仅需要一千加币以上；美元可以选ICICI bank，一个月的term deposit年利率就有5％（如存一年，利率为5.25％），本金仅需要五百币以上.

Aug 29th, 2006, 00:40	#1
dreamchaser999 The money girl 注册日期: Aug 2006 住址: Calgary 帖子: 108	买GIC 好还是买基金好？看一看两者在纳税上的区别 I have read quite a few questions about buy GIC vs. buy mutual fund and the questions about GIC rate. In addition to other benefit of a mutual fund over GIC, there is also a huge tax benefit on equity fund. Here is the illustration. Assumptions: Return = 5% Tax rate = 40% Capital = $100,000 Interest Suppose you use $100,000 to buy GIC at 5% A year later, you made $5,000 interest Doesn’t matter if you take out the money or not (For example, if you bought a 5 years GIC, after one year, you can’t take it out), you still get a tax slip from the bank to report your interest income of $5,000 Your tax payment is $5,000x 40% = $2000 Your net gain = $3000 Capital Gain Suppose you use $100,000 to buy mutual fund unit at $10/unit You get 10,000 units A year later, the unit price of the mutual fund that you bought increased from $10 per unit to $10.50 per unit. Now you made $5,000 (10,000 x $0.50) If you decide not to take out the money, you don’t have to pay tax; unless the fund company made a capital gain distribution (means they pass the gain to the investors). If you do decide to take out the $5,000, it means you will need to sell 476 units to get $5,000. ($5,000 divided by $10.50) $5000 = 476 units Among 476 units, your capital gain portion is actually only $238 (476 x $0.5) Because capital gain is taxed at 50%, this means that only half of your capital gain, which is $119, is taxable The tax you will have to pay is $119 x 40% = $47.6. Let’s round it up to $48. Your net gain is $5,000 - $48 = $4952 Please note that not all the mutual funds are equity funds. Some of them are dividend fund, which also provide a tax advantage. Some of them are balanced funds which have both equity stocks and fixed income stuff such as bonds or money market funds. Some of them are fixed income funds which do not provide the same type of tax advantage of equity funds. If your money is inside of RRSP, the tax treatment of any mutual fund is the same. The above illustration only works when your investment is outside of RRSP.
	Sherry Wong, B. Comm, M. Sc. Investors Group Financial Services Inc. Calgary, Alberta Phone (403) 253-4840 ext. 2339

Aug 29th, 2006, 03:43	只看该作者 #7
qiegao Senior Member 注册日期: Jul 2004 帖子: 1,569 声望: 6986466	....... ....... 此帖于 Aug 29th, 2006 21:44 被 qiegao 编辑。原因: ......

Aug 29th, 2006, 09:41	只看该作者 #8
TRADES Senior Member 注册日期: Jul 2005 帖子: 542 声望: 248244	借贵地请教六里台或MAGIC TANG, 如果有部分钱就想短期投资 (一年或两年后兑现), 我知道从税务角度MUTUAL FUND要好些, 但要是考虑到交易手续费呢? 也是一个不小的比例呀. 还是说不同的BROKER手续费有高有低?
TRADES Senior Member 注册日期: Jul 2005 帖子: 542 声望: 248244

Aug 29th, 2006, 10:12	只看该作者 #9
taile Senior Member 注册日期: Jan 2005 帖子: 942 声望: 4223333	我也正想买点基金呢，但对此不是很懂。刚开了td waterhouse的帐号，但只是把钱放进去了，还没有买任何东西，不知道买的话怎么操作呢？是去td找一个人帮我买呢还是我自己就可以了，两者有没有费用上的差别阿?
taile Senior Member 注册日期: Jan 2005 帖子: 942 声望: 4223333	啦啦啦

Aug 29th, 2006, 10:51	只看该作者 #11
dudu200405 Member 注册日期: Mar 2005 帖子: 91 声望: 164	买什么好，因人而异从税务的角度讲，每个家庭的情况都不一样。收入低的情况下买GIC稳稳的拿些收入也未尝不可。家庭收入比较高又有些闲钱的，长线可以考虑买FUND。但是一定要能承受短线贬值的事实。 FINANCIAL ADVISOR自然希望客户买FUNDS了，他们会有很多COMMISSIONS。买方是最终承担所有费用和风险的。别太盲目了。我周围很多人都在抱怨自己买的FUNDS如何如何跌.
dudu200405 Member 注册日期: Mar 2005 帖子: 91 声望: 164

Aug 29th, 2006, 19:54	只看该作者 #20
不服不行云河注册日期: Oct 2005 帖子: 6,885 声望: 17475548	特别强调一下，买MF有比较大的风险，有血本无归的可能性，就是为了分散投资风险，也应该买一些GIC（此处特别推荐PC和ICICI）. 在PC Bank，活期帐户的年利率为4％以上，本金仅需要一千加币以上；美元可以选ICICI bank，一个月的term deposit年利率就有5％（如存一年，利率为5.25％），本金仅需要五百币以上.
不服不行云河注册日期: Oct 2005 帖子: 6,885 声望: 17475548