帮人问个问题：有闲钱是买RRSP合适，还是还Mortgage合适？

[多伦多市政府]

就忘了RRSP每年7-15%利滚利的增长了,

作者: Tiger04

It is not that simple.

If you do not pay Mortgage, you have to pay 5-6%的年利息 every year!
If you buy RRSP, you 少付22%的税款 one time only, plus you have to pay some 税款 later whenever you withdraw.

4 years of 5-6%的年利息 = 22% one time.

[Standby]

多谢各位！欢迎大家正反两方继续讨论！

ca416371，谢谢你！我已经把她的个案情况贴出来了，你有什么高招能帮她“把mortgage尽早还完，每个月的还款额却并不增加”可以尽管讲出来了。虽然那可能不是下之四海而皆准的，但最起码让大家从这个个案中得到点启示了。

作者: ca416371

如果想知道怎么样可以把mortgage尽早还完，每个月的还款额却并不增加的话，可以通过内部话题和我联系，谢谢！

作者: ca416371

因为每个不同的案例需要的方法是不一样的，需要根据情况个案个办。就象不同的人得了感冒，可能有的要打青霉素，有的最好给点其他的药一样，所以无法发布、共享，抱歉！

有兴趣的请通过内部话题同我联系，谢谢！

[Tiger04]

作者: 多伦多市政府

买RRSP先,
MORTGAGE是什么意思?是银行给可以买房人的一种福利,

MORTGAGE=福利?? , why did you say 我买房都是3年半了,这个悔啊,肠子都青了 in other post? (From: http://www.chinasmile.net/forums/sho...t=37390&page=3). 福利=肠子都青了?

Try to be consistent! is that why you call yourself 市政府 because 市政府 is always change the policy? haha, I got you!.

[Tiger04]

作者: 多伦多市政府

就忘了RRSP每年7-15%利滚利的增长了,

Look carefully, I said "It is not that simple.", because some people only compare the one time Tax cut rate of RRSP with 5% interest rate on mortgage and forget mortgage interest rate has to be paid every year till paid off.

you are somehow right. The performance of the RRSP is a key to say which one is better.

If you can make RRSP每年7-15%利滚利的增长, of course buying RRSP is better than paying mortgage, but who can guaranty that? However the 5% or more interest on Mortgage is fixed.

so it is a personal choice here, not simple answer.

[多伦多市政府]

你就仔细深入地学习体会吧,

作者: Tiger04

MORTGAGE=福利?? , why did you say 我买房都是3年半了,这个悔啊,肠子都青了 in other post? (From: http://www.chinasmile.net/forums/sho...t=37390&page=3). 福利=肠子都青了?

Try to be consistent! is that why you call yourself 市政府 because 市政府 is always change the policy? haha, I got you!.

[bank]

安省税率：收入３万２－６万４之间是联邦税２２％，省税９。０５％，一共３１。０５％。２２％是哪个省的？我要往那搬。

[citrine]

作者: Standby

一晚上没上来已经有这么多热心朋友回复了！多谢大家了！

这个朋友一个人带着7岁的孩子在加，丈夫在国内。她个人年薪4万多不到5万。Mortgage还剩10万多。每月供款额是1000刀，5年浮动，现利率是3.5，大约9年供完。从来没买过RRSP，RESP之类。

她这种情况，是该优先买RRSP，还是该先还些Mortgage?

这个情况很有优势嘛。
首先看他先生是否在报税时申报国内的收入，就算报估计额度也很少吧？那先生和孩子就算做她的dependants可以降低一部分应缴税收入；然后再算买多少RRSP可以降低一个tax bracket。估摸着就买这个数字吧。买完后再有余钱+RRSP退税后的钱都还mortgage。最后，RRSP应该买在先生名下。如果先生一分钱收入都不报，或者很低，他可以第二年取出来，就算当作他当年收入计算，只要总收入在8000以下（包括取出RRSP的部分）他就不用上税。这样这笔钱又可以还进mortgage里去。
我毕竟不是搞经济的，还请专家们斧正。

[ca416371]

作者: Tiger04

It is not that simple.

If you do not pay Mortgage, you have to pay 5-6%的年利息 every year!
If you buy RRSP, you 少付22%的税款 one time only, plus you have to pay some 税款 later whenever you withdraw.

4 years of 5-6%的年利息 = 22% one time.

I agree with you on this: it is not that simple. However, the rest of your post, I can't agree with.

1. Money put in RRSP are going to get its returns tax defered;
2. I can call back ALL the tax later when you are taking money out of the RRSP account. What you need is just a good strategy.

[ca416371]

作者: Standby

ca416371，谢谢你！我已经把她的个案情况贴出来了，你有什么高招能帮她“把mortgage尽早还完，每个月的还款额却并不增加”可以尽管讲出来了。虽然那可能不是下之四海而皆准的，但最起码让大家从这个个案中得到点启示了。

我还是需要见到本人之后才能帮助她做出决定，谢谢。不是想保留什么秘密，而是这东西比较复杂，一不留神就有可能会误导别人，那不是我的初衷，抱歉。

[Tiger04]

作者: ca416371

I agree with you on this: it is not that simple. However, the rest of your post, I can't agree with.

1. Money put in RRSP are going to get its returns tax defered;
2. I can call back ALL the tax later when you are taking money out of the RRSP account. What you need is just a good strategy.

Thanks for reminding me these:
1. the gain on the house price increases (for own living house)or the money saved on rental are not tax defered, but totally tax free
2. the one can pay off the mortgage first, and then buy the RRSP to catch the tax cut benifit, because the RRSP room can be defered forever.

[Tiger04]

作者: ca416371

I agree with you on this: it is not that simple. However, the rest of your post, I can't agree with.

1. Money put in RRSP are going to get its returns tax defered;
2. I can call back ALL the tax later when you are taking money out of the RRSP account. What you need is just a good strategy.

Thanks for reminding me these:
1. the gain on the house price increases (for own living house)or the money saved on rental are not tax defered, but totally tax free
2. the one can pay off the mortgage first, and then buy the RRSP to catch the tax cut benifit, because the RRSP room can be defered forever.

[ca416371]

1. the gain on the house price increases (for own living house)or the money saved on rental are not tax defered, but totally tax free
As long as you still live there, it is tax free. However, when you sell it, it is another story if you don't plan beforehead. If you do not sell, what is the benefit the so-called price increases going to bring to you?

2. the one can pay off the mortgage first, and then buy the RRSP to catch the tax cut benifit, because the RRSP room can be defered forever.
Seems either your English is not good enough to catch my meaning at all, or you are just trying to mislead others. There are a lot of ways to get your RRSP money out of the RRSP account tax free. However, not every one has enough knowledge to make the necessary arrangements.

[理财真复杂]

综上, 那结论其实就是pay mortgage first, then buy RRSP later.

[ca416371]

作者: 理财真复杂

综上, 那结论其实就是pay mortgage first, then buy RRSP later.

No.

[Tiger04]

作者: ca416371

1. the gain on the house price increases (for own living house)or the money saved on rental are not tax defered, but totally tax free
As long as you still live there, it is tax free. However, when you sell it, it is another story if you don't plan beforehead. If you do not sell, what is the benefit the so-called price increases going to bring to you?

2. the one can pay off the mortgage first, and then buy the RRSP to catch the tax cut benifit, because the RRSP room can be defered forever.
Seems either your English is not good enough to catch my meaning at all, or you are just trying to mislead others. There are a lot of ways to get your RRSP money out of the RRSP account tax free. However, not every one has enough knowledge to make the necessary arrangements.

1. It is not another story even you sell it. what I know is if the house you try to sell is your prime living house (not rental property), it is totally tax free.

2. sorry, I did not follow your second point there. it seems you misunderstand my point. when I say tax cut benifit from RRSP. I did not mean the time get the money out of RRSP. some people said when they buy RRSP they could save some tax right away, 30% or whatever. I just want to remember that you could always get that tax cut later, if you pay your mortage right now and buy RRSP later.

[理财真复杂]

作者: citrine

这个情况很有优势嘛。
首先看他先生是否在报税时申报国内的收入，就算报估计额度也很少吧？那先生和孩子就算做她的dependants可以降低一部分应缴税收入；然后再算买多少RRSP可以降低一个tax bracket。估摸着就买这个数字吧。买完后再有余钱+RRSP退税后的钱都还mortgage。最后，RRSP应该买在先生名下。如果先生一分钱收入都不报，或者很低，他可以第二年取出来，就算当作他当年收入计算，只要总收入在8000以下（包括取出RRSP的部分）他就不用上税。这样这笔钱又可以还进mortgage里去。
我毕竟不是搞经济的，还请专家们斧正。

两个疑问:
好象不是第二年取出来吧, 我记得是投进去两年后才可以,否则还是算妻子的取的那年的收入.
如果将来以先生的名义取出并当作先生的收入,那么妻子报税时就少了7千多先生无收入的免税额,所以也没占到便宜.

[游夫]

作者: Tiger04

It is not that simple.

If you do not pay Mortgage, you have to pay 5-6%的年利息 every year!
If you buy RRSP, you 少付22%的税款 one time only, plus you have to pay some 税款 later whenever you withdraw.

4 years of 5-6%的年利息 = 22% one time.

RRSP每年都可买呀，这不相当于每年22%？

[Tiger04]

作者: 游夫

RRSP每年都可买呀，这不相当于每年22%？

for example,

if you have RRSP room $10000 every year, that means if you buy RRSP in full every year, you will save tax: $10000*22%=$2200. after 3 years, you save $6600, and use $30000 your income. you can not save $10000*22%*3year+$10000*22%*2year+$10000*22%*1year=$12000. that is what I mean you can save the tax cut benifit 22%(or whatever) once in a life time.

comparing with someone who use this $10000 in their mortage, the person will save $10000*5% every year till you pay off your mortage. use above example, for 3years delay of total $30000(of course if you do not buy RRSP, you might not have $30000 in hand, because you have to pay tax), you have to pay interests: $10000*5%*3year+$10000*5%*2year+$10000*5%*1year.

That is the different, hope you can understand.

Just want to remind you, you could alway get the $6600 tax saving on $30000 RRSP later, because the RRSP room can be forward forever, which means, if you do not buy any RRSP in the above example, in fours year, you will have total $40000 RRSP room. if you buy it in full, you will still save $8800 (the same result as you buy RRSP every year).

[ca416371]

Tiger04: Your calculation makes no sense to me. Let me show you something.

OK, now suppose she is getting some RRSP first, say 10k/year, that means she is making 10k/18%=55k/year, and here in Ontario, her Marginal
Tax Rate would be 31.15%, not 22%. For simpilicity, let's make it 30%. So the 1st year she is saving: 10k*30%=3k. Let's just look at this 10k.

The key benefit of RRSP is that ALL investment gains within are tax sheltered. Now let's assume she is making only 4% gains there, which is VERY SAFE to get, with a risk which is next to none. In 20 years, the 10k money she has there would be: 21.9k.

Now let's see what happens if she does not buy RRSP, instead used this money to pay back mortgage. 1st she is taxed 30%, which means she has only 7k to pay back the mortgage. With 7k @ 5%, 20 years later it would have been: 18.57k or 18.6k. She could have taken 21.9k out of her RRSP to pay off the mortgage and save herself 3.3k on this 10k! Make sense?

[citrine]

作者: 理财真复杂

两个疑问:
好象不是第二年取出来吧, 我记得是投进去两年后才可以,否则还是算妻子的取的那年的收入.
谢谢更正，是需要两年以后取出才能算作先生的收入。


如果将来以先生的名义取出并当作先生的收入,那么妻子报税时就少了7千多先生无收入的免税额,所以也没占到便宜.

你考虑得很周全，但取的时候取多少，还有两年以后这个家庭的情况如何，财务计划有什么改变，侧重点又是什么，妻子的工作稳定程度，先生国内收入申报额度。。。这些都是影响结果的因素。也说不定对投资有了新的认识，付清房贷已经不是重点，那么在RRSP内做投资也就可以得到税务暂缓的优势。