买GIC 好还是买基金好？ 看一看两者在纳税上的区别

[dreamchaser999]

I have read quite a few questions about buy GIC vs. buy mutual fund and the questions about GIC rate. In addition to other benefit of a mutual fund over GIC, there is also a huge tax benefit on equity fund. Here is the illustration.

Assumptions:

Return = 5%
Tax rate = 40%
Capital = $100,000

Interest
Suppose you use $100,000 to buy GIC at 5%
A year later, you made $5,000 interest
Doesn’t matter if you take out the money or not (For example, if you bought a 5 years GIC, after one year, you can’t take it out), you still get a tax slip from the bank to report your interest income of $5,000
Your tax payment is $5,000x 40% = $2000
Your net gain = $3000

Capital Gain
Suppose you use $100,000 to buy mutual fund unit at $10/unit
You get 10,000 units
A year later, the unit price of the mutual fund that you bought increased from $10 per unit to $10.50 per unit.
Now you made $5,000 (10,000 x $0.50)
If you decide not to take out the money, you don’t have to pay tax; unless the fund company made a capital gain distribution (means they pass the gain to the investors).

If you do decide to take out the $5,000, it means you will need to sell 476 units to get $5,000. ($5,000 divided by $10.50)
$5000 = 476 units
Among 476 units, your capital gain portion is actually only $238 (476 x $0.5)
Because capital gain is taxed at 50%, this means that only half of your capital gain, which is $119, is taxable
The tax you will have to pay is $119 x 40% = $47.6. Let’s round it up to $48.
Your net gain is $5,000 - $48 = $4952

Please note that not all the mutual funds are equity funds. Some of them are dividend fund, which also provide a tax advantage. Some of them are balanced funds which have both equity stocks and fixed income stuff such as bonds or money market funds. Some of them are fixed income funds which do not provide the same type of tax advantage of equity funds. If your money is inside of RRSP, the tax treatment of any mutual fund is the same. The above illustration only works when your investment is outside of RRSP.

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 六里台

9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7算作你的 capital gain

区别有二，第一、GIC的gain每年都要认，不管你取不取出来；m fund在你取出来的时候认，起到延期交税的作用；

第二、capital gain 只有50%作为应纳税所得额

强烈建议LZ用中文写，这里有时态的问题，...

Looks like LZ is not refer to me but I am sorry too. I can't use my computer to type Chinese directly on this website. If I need to type in Chinese, I will have to use NJstar to type and then do a copy and paste.

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: dudu200405

从税务的角度讲，每个家庭的情况都不一样。收入低的情况下买GIC稳稳的拿些收入也未尝不可。
家庭收入比较高又有些闲钱的，长线可以考虑买FUND。但是一定要能承受短线贬值的事实。

FINANCIAL ADVISOR自然希望客户买FUNDS了，他们会有很多COMMISSIONS。

买方是最终承担所有费...

I don't have any problem to disclose my commission when we meet in person. As a matter of fact, if you buy no-load funds, the sales person does not make any commission. I do make an Assets Retaintion fee, which is 0.25% of the assets under my management. This means if you give me $100 to manage for you, after one year, I make $0.25. Is that a lot?

Actually, the way that I am paid means that we are both on the same boat. When you money grow, I make more money. When you lose money, I lose money. When you leave, I make nothing. Therefore, I will try my best to make you making money and to keep you satisfied. Not like salary paid employees, your portfolio performance has nothing to do with their income. That is why you don't get a call from your bank too often regarding your portfolio performance.

Sherry

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: taile

我也正想买点基金呢，但对此不是很懂。
刚开了td waterhouse的帐号，但只是把钱放进去了，还没有买任何东西，不知道买的话怎么操作呢？是去td找一个人帮我买呢还是我自己就可以了，两者有没有费用上的差别阿?

If you come to us, we can help you and there is no fee. But I can only help you with our funds, not TD's funds.

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: dudu200405

怎么也得三五年啊，不然卖出的时候手续费基本和受益相等。还不如卖GIC呢！

If you need money within 7 years, you can buy no load funds and you don't have to pay a fee when you sell it.

Also, even with end load funds, you can take out 10% each year without having to pay the fee.

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 士嘉堡乡政府

假设余下的 10,000-476 =9524 units 保持 $10.50不变，比如持续了一年，那末一年后，如果你决定卖掉这 9524 units，那末这时候是怎末算的？
是不是 9524 x $0.5 = $4677.7，这个应该算作你的 capital gain？还是 9524 x $10.5...

Yes, you are right. 9524x$0.5 = $4677.7 is your capital gain. Let's round it up to $2648. Remember, only half of it is taxable. Therefore, only $2339 is taxable. Suppose your tax rate is 40%. The tax you will need to pay is $2339 x 40% = $935.6. Let's round it up to $936.

Remember, you already paid $48 a year ago. Now you sold everything and paid another $936 in tax. Your total tax payment amount now is $936+$48=$984.

Remember, when you buy GIC, you have paid $2000 the first year. Therefore, there is still significant tax savings when buy mutual funds.

The conservative party proposed that any capital gain would not be taxable if the investor re-invest it within 6 month. If this bill go through, you don't have to pay any tax when you sold the entire $105,000 but re-invested (bought something else, let's say, a revenue property) within the next 6 month. Pleas note, this is not the case yet but could be true in the future.

I also see a lot of friends talking about the risk of investing in mutual funds. There are a number of ways to overcome this. One is to buy segregated funds which can guarantee your principal up to 100%. Other ways, I will do some illustrations later.

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: dudu200405

从税务的角度讲，每个家庭的情况都不一样。收入低的情况下买GIC稳稳的拿些收入也未尝不可。
家庭收入比较高又有些闲钱的，长线可以考虑买FUND。但是一定要能承受短线贬值的事实。

FINANCIAL ADVISOR自然希望客户买FUNDS了，他们会有很多COMMISSIONS。

买方是最终承担所有费...

PS: The 0.25% assets retention fee is paid by the fund company, not by you.

Somebody would argue that it is eventually comes out of clients anyway. You are right but remember, the rate of return (or the fund performance) quoted by the fund company is after all the expenses occured by the fund company, not before.

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: dudu200405

如果是短线，比如一年到三年呢？你还建议别人买MF吗？

第一，基金有风险很高的，也有风险中等的，也有风险很低的，也有保本基金，也有
Money Market Fund, 象活期存款一样，不会丢本，可是回报也很低。不是所有基金
都有风险。

第二，我们给你推荐投资方式时，投资期限只是一个需要考虑的因素，其它因素也
要考虑，比如你对风险的承受能力。如果一个人帐面上丢五毛钱都会睡不着觉，那
么不管长线短线，我都会建议他去买GIC。如果有人对风险的承受力属于中等，并且
有一到三年时间，如果我假设有1/3的钱在一年之内要用，1/3的钱在两年之内要用，
1/3的钱可以等三年，那么我大概会建议他将1/3的钱放入GIC里，1/3的钱放在很安
全的一种或数种基金里，另外1/3的钱放在较为安全的一种或数种基金里。

我们的顾客买基金时，都得回答一份详细的问卷，从而使我们对他们的投资需求和
性格特色有进一步的了解。在这个基础上，我们才会作出推荐。而整个过程都是一
个相互了解，共同磋商，最后由客户点头批准的过程。而且，一旦决定，也不是一
成不变。我们会对基金的表现进行观测。如果客户的需求有了变化，投资的方式也
需要有所调整。

再则，现在在基金行业里，大公司都有严格的归定，它们的雇员不可以将风险高的
基金卖给不适合的投资者。有人层层把关。不合适的基金跟本通不过。但是如果你
自己到网上去买，就没有人把这个关了。

打一个比方，不会游泳的人觉得游泳很可怕，特别是在听说了有人淹死的故事之后。
我想个别淹死的人一定是有特殊原因，比如不会游泳，不小心掉到水里，现场又没
人搭救。如果你到游泳池里的浅水区，而且有教练在身边守护，你觉得被淹死的可
能性有多大？

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 车夫

好问题! 关键是CAPITAL GAIN只有一半上税, 一楼的$5000取出时是"连本带利", 同GIC的$5000纯利息收录不可比. 还是比较两种情况下都全取出来比较好懂.
风险当然还是MUTUAL FUND大, 因为GIC是可知的, MF是相对不可知的.

说得有道理，现在让我改变一下我的假设：

Assumptions:

Return = 5%
Tax rate = 40%
Capital = $100,000

Interest
Suppose you use $100,000 to buy GIC at 5%
A year later, you made $5,000 interest
Doesn't matter if you take out the money or not (For example, if you bought
a 5 years GIC, after one year, you can’t take it out), you still get a
tax slip from the bank to report your interest income of $5,000
Your tax payment is $5,000x 40% = $2000
Your net gain = $3000

Capital Gain
Suppose you use $100,000 to buy mutual fund unit at $10/unit
You get 10,000 units
A year later, the unit price of the mutual fund that you bought increased
from $10 per unit to $10.50 per unit.
Now you made $5,000 (10,000 x $0.50)
If you decide not to take out the money, you don’t have to pay tax; unless
the fund company made a capital gain distribution (means they pass the gain
to the investors).

If you do decide to take out the entire 105,000, then you need to pay the
tax on $2500 (half of the $5,000 gain).

$2,500 x 40% = $1,000. It is only half of the tax that you have paid on
the interest income ($2,000)

[dreamchaser999]

作者: qiegao

请问，把几万块放在PC BANK拿4%，没什么风险吧，随时可以拿回来，有CIBC帐户的人

作者: qiegao

请问，把几万块放在PC BANK拿4%，没什么风险吧，随时可以拿回来，
有CIBC帐户的人

这几万块是随时都会全部需要使用呢，还是其中的一部分随时都需要使用？需要的
部分是有一定的用途呢 (比如买房买车)，还是以防万一？

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 车夫

好问题! 关键是CAPITAL GAIN只有一半上税, 一楼的$5000取出时是"连本带利", 同GIC的$5000纯利息收录不可比. 还是比较两种情况下都全取出来比较好懂.
风险当然还是MUTUAL FUND大, 因为GIC是可知的, MF是相对不可知的.

好诗！！！

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 单枪匹马

什么破电脑！

System: Microfoft Windows XP
Professional 2002 service pack 2

Manufactured and supported by Dell Notebook D610, Intel (R) Pentium (R) M
Puchased in the summer of 2005 from Dell.

What is yours?

S.

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 火翼

我有一个关于税率的问题.

假设，我买了一只基金。这支基金，第一年运作得很好，价值上升，并且分了红。到年底的时候，我给我的分红报了税。而基金部分由于没有卖出所以没有报税。到了第二年，基金一路向下，跌得比当初的买入价还低，基金出现亏损。而且由于各种原因忍痛割肉兑现。那么在第二年报税的时候。割掉的cap...

When capital gains are realized, either as a result of a disposition of property or as a result of a capital gains distribution by a mutual fund, it may be possible to offset all or a portion of the gain by disposing of other capital property in a loss position. The use of losses can be a valuable method of deferring tax, but there are a number of pitfalls that must be considered and accounted for before any action is taken to trigger a loss.

Starting with the basics, taxpayers must include in their income for a taxation year the excess of taxable capital gains realized in the year over allowable capital losses realized in the year. "Taxable" capital gains and "allowable" capital losses are 50% of the actual gain or loss realized from the disposition or distribution. If allowable capital losses exceed taxable capital gains in a year, the excess can be carried back three years or forward indefinitely to offset past or future taxable capital gains. Special rules apply for allowable capital losses triggered in the year of death.

The following issues should be considered when contemplating the disposition of any form of capital investment.

Trigger the loss by year-end, instead of January 1st of next year

If a gain is realized in 2004 and you wish to offset the gain by triggering unrealized losses on other property, the "loss" property must be disposed of before the end of 2004 in order for the loss to be claimed on the 2004 tax return. If the loss is realized by a disposition in 2005, it cannot be claimed until the return for the 2005 taxation year is filed in the year 2006. The result is that you would be required to pay the tax on the gain realized in 2004 before April 30, 2005, and would have to wait until the spring of 2006 to be entitled to carry back the loss to 2004 and receive a refund of the tax originally paid on the gain.

Remember the holidays when requesting a switch or sale. Don't wait until December 31st to realize a tax loss, it is better to request the trade earlier rather than later, so that the trade will be properly processed and the loss realized in the year.

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 单枪匹马

哦，那就不是什么破电脑，是什么破电脑能力。

You are very rude. Do you know that?

S.

[dreamchaser999]

您需要回复本帖，然后点击浏览器的刷新按钮才能查看这里的内容。

[dreamchaser999]

作者: qiegao

输入中文很简单，在控制面板里调试一下，地区和语言选项

Thank you but what is the English term of 控制面板? And where do I find it?

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: 玻璃心

Control Panel

Thank you!

Sherry

[dreamchaser999]

作者: Aprils_Fool

It is a little big confusing, but two key points here:

1. Capital Gain is 50% taxed, that could be huge potentially, if you are not loser.

2. GICs s...

I see your point. However, nobody can argue that investing in mutual funds is still investing, Casino is 100% gambing. There are huge differences.

After all, 罗卜白菜， 各有所爱。 But unless one tasted both 罗卜白菜, how does one know which is better?

S.