May 25th, 2011, 00:25 | #1 |
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直接整成电子分频得了,功率分频再怎么整也就那么回事。
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May 25th, 2011, 00:58 | #2 |
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May 25th, 2011, 09:18 | #3 |
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也别太迷信hi-end,很多hi-end也不过是个传说而已。 在我听来,区别大的很。 2百多的电分有源箱子,里面单元和功放都是不入流的东西,听起来比1千的KEF箱子加2千多的功放好的多,就一耳朵的区别, 一个是清楚通透,一个是浑浊朦胧,而价钱差了10倍! 唯一的解释就是分频器。 电分是先分再放大,功率分频是全频放大以后在分,原理不同。电分就必然用bi-amp or tri-amp,amp和单元间只有导线,amp对单元的grip大大加强,声音有力,速度快,而且没有功率分频器夹在单元和功放之间,浪费功率,带进各种失真。 烧友烧到一定阶段,要用bi-amp/tri-amp,真正的bi-amp/tri-amp就是要get rid of功率分频器,不是没有他的道理的,因为听过没有功率分频箱子的耳朵,很难再接受那个分频器在里面捣乱。 追求低失真,频响平直,无音染,速度快,高解析的专业监听决大部分都是用电分,也不是没有他的道理的。 当然如果你不喜欢那种声音,反而喜欢有韵味(有音染和失真?),低解析(有音乐味?),速度慢(松软?)的声音的话,电不电分的没意义,不过电分在技术上的优势是公认的。 此帖于 May 25th, 2011 09:43 被 hugoo 编辑。 |
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May 25th, 2011, 09:26 | #4 |
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网上看来的,比较active和passive speakers,不过主要就是在讲电分以及电分之后用bi-amp/tri-amp带来的好处。 The fact that the crossover is done at line level before amplification. The result being that the crossover can easily incorporate extra features like time delay correction to idealize overall phase response and tailored low frequency EQ to extend the low frequencies beyond what is possible with a similar sized and designed passive speaker (often as much as a full octave of addition low frequency output). Many higher end pro monitors and all of Meridian's current active consumer loudspeaker line up actually only accept a digital signal input, and perform the crossover and correction in the digital domain which can offer even more benefits. The line level electronic crossover requires multiple amplifiers dedicated to each speaker, one per frequency band. This is a much more efficient use of amplifier power as passive crossovers "waste" much of the amplifier's output in the loudspeaker crossover. This efficiency is exhibited in an active loudspeaker's maximum acoustic output vs the total power of its individual amplifiers. My little 2 way Meridian M3s and M2s, early analog active designs from Meridian using a similar driver compliment to the classic LS3/5A, use a 35 watt amp on the tweeters and a 70 watt amp on the mid-bass drivers. to achieve the same peak acoustic output out of a similar passive design like the LS3/5a would require a single amplifier in well excess of 200 watts/ch. In an active design each amp is directly connected to the driver with no intervening passive components other than a short length of speaker wire. Thus the individual amps are better able to efficiently control the driver's motion. Active loudspeakers are often described as "sounding faster" than equivalent passive models. This can be attributed to the reduced overshoot of the loudspeaker drivers due to the improved damping of direct drive. Each amp can be tailored perfectly to the load it must drive and as mentioned above it requires fewer watts to achieve similar acoustic output level. Complex passive crossovers tend to be difficult for an amplifier to drive as the load presented often is very reactive (all those big inductor coils and capacitors) rather than simply resistive (the drivers themselves). This is why some loudspeaker designs with seamingly reasonable efficiency ratings can be total power hogs requiring large high current amplifiers to "bring 'em to life". Thiel loudspeakers for example are notoriously tough loads. All things being equal, it is easier to make great sounding smaller amps with their simpler circuits and fewer paralleled output devices. An active loudspeaker will exhibit reduced levels of distortion and compression for a given acoustic ouput level. First there will be reduced levels of intermodulation distortion due to the fact that with an active crossover design we can use much steeper crossover slopes and yet still have ideal minimum phase behavior. In addition as mentioned above, we have the reduced overshoot and ringing from the improved damping. And finally, its worth pointing out that the measured performance of both speaker drive units and the components in passive crossover designs will drift as they are thermally stressed by being driven hard. The fact that active loudspeakers can use fewer watts to achieve the same output levels with a complete absence of passive crossover parts imbues them with a sense of dynamic freedom (lack of compression) that is largely absent in all but cost-no-object loudspeaker designs. Active loudspeakers can make very complex high-end, high performance music and theater systems seemingly appear very simple, neat, and tidy by reducing the "box count", the size of the loudspeakers for a given performance level, and eliminating large speaker cables (replaced by much smaller analog or digital interconnects. As described above, due to all the efficiencies being realized in a good active design, the seemingly more expensive active loudspeaker design is almost always substantially cheaper than attempting to achieve the same performance with a traditional passive setup. |
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May 25th, 2011, 12:51 | #5 |
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老广呀,你真是要多看看多了解先,专业界电分箱子现在早已经是统治地位了,那有说用的不多?人家用的原因也不是你说的喇叭线长/粗不实际,你要这样说给那些玩专业的,要给人笑话的。 全频喇叭谁要能作出符合40-20khz +/-2db频响的,那啥都别说了,可惜物理定律决定了没人作的出呀。 我看你的耳朵已经被你自模的箱子给惯坏了,听到那种直白失真小高解析的箱子,你是习惯不了了。 此帖于 May 25th, 2011 13:15 被 hugoo 编辑。 |
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May 25th, 2011, 13:43 | #6 |
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May 25th, 2011, 17:51 | #7 | |
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看看国内的老烧现在在玩什么 看133楼 http://www.jd-bbs.com/thread-2498978-9-1.html 要玩就玩点新花样的,这功率分频双线分音之类的,几十年的古董技术了,在上面再怎么折腾,意思不大了,还不如学学新东西,玩玩新技术呢。 引用:
此帖于 May 25th, 2011 18:20 被 hugoo 编辑。 |
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May 25th, 2011, 22:19 | #8 |
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May 25th, 2011, 22:29 | #9 |
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算是比较潮吧,这样玩的越来越多了,据说国内玩百万级器材的都改玩这种配置了,我反正是中毒了。 别误会了“声卡”的意思,你听过$5000的声卡吗? 我有3套监听,M-Audio BX5a, JBL6325, Focal Solo 6. 正在听$200块的M-AUDIO, 音色不好说,就是通透高解析,音场定位真他妈好,可以数人头的说,才2百刀得箱子连功放都带了,这种性价比,你信不信 ?! 那啥Yamaha MSP7的review你加把盐看吧,没准你亲耳听到那箱子以后,会大骂这写review的他坑爹呀。 此帖于 May 26th, 2011 01:20 被 hugoo 编辑。 |
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May 26th, 2011, 09:25 | #10 |
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是这个道理。 有的人烧音色,什么高音甜中音准低音劲什么的,什么松香味的小提琴之类的。 有的人追求尽可能还原录音的效果,喜欢回放器材没有自己的音色,失真越低越好,频响越直越好,听感越通透越好。 最后还是那句话,Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,萝卜青菜,各有所爱,关键是搞清楚自己喜欢什么,别被网上杂志上那些枪文review之类的忽悠。 再讲几句专业电分监听, 除了通透,还有个特点就是频响直,味精加的少,设计理念就是那样的,好处就是你听啥都可以,进去是什么,出来的就是什么,对音乐种类不太挑剔,听什么都行,不过对音源要求就更高了。 此帖于 May 26th, 2011 10:01 被 hugoo 编辑。 |
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May 26th, 2011, 10:49 | #11 | |
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Dalplex, 搞些便宜功放就行。 老款的系统,一般分频器是系统的瓶颈,功放和单元都是足够好的, performance tuning力气要花在瓶颈上, 你用差些便宜功放,带来的音质损失,我敢说,绝对比干掉那个分频器带来的音质提升要小的多,一加一减, 最终系统的表现还是会好很多的。 不过这是比较花钱的玩法了,量力而行吧。 引用:
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May 26th, 2011, 14:25 | #12 |
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May 26th, 2011, 20:14 | #13 |
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你说的高频太强是说箱子的频响在高频部分有突起? 还是说你的耳朵告诉你这箱子高频太强? 如果是第二种,那没啥好说的,听感都是主观的。 如果是第一种, 频响是可以用仪器测的吧? 这是jbl 6325的频响指标: frequency Response: 70 Hz - 20 kHz (+1, -2 dB) 具体的在这里有详细的图表: http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...pe=3&docid=567 我是看不出来哪里有高频太强的问题,而且敢标70Hz-20khz(+1,-2dB)是要很有点水平和胆量的,没几家厂敢这么标的。 其实你想想,如果监听像那种便宜喇叭的高音一样那么强,那些专业的家伙一天从头到尾都听着那种夸张的高音,他们的耳朵受的了吗?人家的耳朵也是肉长的呀,是不? 所以呢,我看还是你的参照系的问题,你有测过你的Wharfedale的频响吗? 我猜可能你的箱子高频Rolloff的厉害,突出中频讨好耳朵,但听到这种频响一马平川直到20Khz的监听声习惯不了。 |
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May 26th, 2011, 20:24 | #14 |
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May 26th, 2011, 21:19 | #15 |
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May 26th, 2011, 21:30 | #16 |
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May 27th, 2011, 00:09 | #17 |
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silent_fish是不是也是英国箱子?是不是可能你们两个的参照系都有问题哟? 老广呀,你还是没get my point,我不是说了嘛,强不强不是你的听感说了算的,对吧? 看看focal的频响指标,跟Ribbon一样,也是到40khz, +/-2dB. Focal Solo 6 Be active 2 way studio monitor - frequency response: 40Hz-40khz (+/-2dB), max SPL: 113dB (peak @ 1mtr). Bi-amping: LF stage: 150watts (RMS), HF stage: 100watts (RMS). LF Focal 6W4370 6.5" speaker, HF Focal TBE Pro inverted Beryllium dome tweeter, magnetically shielded. Focal的高音本来就是有人爱有人恨的,你不喜欢很正常呀。但好不好,就看个人了,我可以连续听focal好几个小时,耳朵都没啥不舒服的感觉,太强吗?我不觉得呀。 那我还可以说你的箱子高频rolloff太厉害,只突出中低频讨好耳朵,有什么好呢? Ribbon的高音好像指向性比较强,反球顶的指向性比较广,甜点比较大,具体的你到focal的网站上去看看就行了。 而且Ribbon的高音,也是恨的人恨的要死,爱的人爱的要死,还是别说什么好不好,毕竟很多时候,one man's garbage is another man's treasure。 |
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May 27th, 2011, 00:14 | #18 |
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May 27th, 2011, 00:20 | #19 |
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May 27th, 2011, 00:23 | #20 |
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