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旧 Nov 16th, 2012, 12:53     #1
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默认 弯弓射虎

KO的这招有点像杨式的弯弓射虎。如果劲力再整一点,估计对手的小命就要报销了。在长拳里也有相似的招式,叫打虎式,小时候不知道用法,以为只是个亮相,好看而已。

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旧 Nov 16th, 2012, 15:23     #2
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默认

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作者: wildmild 查看帖子
厉害的不是招数,是距离感和反应,他贴着对手的拳闪过的时机和距离都很精准,这个时候怎么打都有了。
没错,厉害的不是招数,而是拳法的原理。一旦掌握了拳法的原理,随便一动便是招数。
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旧 Nov 16th, 2012, 18:24     #3
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默认

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我的截图功能失灵,SJ可以代劳否?
是不是这些截图?不过,跟三代的看法一样,致命的是头上的那一下,可惜后面的已经没有什么力量了。如果这一拳是出自练过传统功夫的人,这一拳下来,胸肋骨全断。
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旧 Nov 23rd, 2012, 20:08     #4
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默认

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作者: sunday 查看帖子
甲方的拳击中对方后,惯性下滑,落至对方胸部。但此时已经是强弩之末。这点从手腕已经完全弯曲就可以看得出来。 拳击的进攻面在拳的正面骨头。这种手腕已经折弯的状况,已没有一点力量。所以,当甲方的拳击中对方面部之后,进攻就已经完成了。根本不存在击对方胸部击倒对方的理念。
甲方在攻击前身体向对方右边侧倾是避开对方的直拳攻击,然后右臂发力攻击对方面部,这是两个动作,在太极拳里叫做断劲。由于断劲,那一击只是撞击,没有穿透性,而且只是用到了手臂的质量,所以这个撞击力不是很大,对方只是脑部发懵,身体向前到地。不然的话,对方的身体应该会向后仰到。

太极拳讲究平衡力对称力,说的土点就是自己打自己,说的高级点就是合劲,说的形象点就是一部自我运转的机器,把对方吃进来卷进去。太极拳里的弯弓射虎,类似拳击的摆拳,目标是对方的太阳穴,但跟拳击不同的是,手臂是随身体而动,像一个兵器连接在身体上,当身体侧身进步时躲避时,手臂也同时随之攻击。这个攻击力是身体发出来的,不是单单一个手臂,这时全身的质量都能用上,撞击力将是非常的大;不仅这些,练太极拳的还有根劲,就像斜插在地上的一根棍子,对方冲上来会是什么结局可想而知。
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旧 Nov 24th, 2012, 18:37     #5
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默认

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作者: sunday 查看帖子
其实真正能技击的太极拳在攻击时和外家拳都是一样的。要想发出大的力量, 都是需要整劲。
niIQU8_y_7s&...
我也支持内家外家练到高层次时,都是一家的说法。但我就事论事,从上面的视频分析,甲方侧身前倾到位时,手臂还在身后,这确实是两个动作,就是断劲。此时,就算身体继续前倾,而带动手臂攻击,整劲的强度也不大了。也许这只是个体特例?
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旧 Nov 24th, 2012, 18:58     #6
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默认

整劲肯定是协调,但协调不一定得到整劲。很简单,很多的运动,比如体操,滑冰,舞蹈,足球等,这些运动员动起来都很协调,但没有整劲。整劲一定要懂劲之后,才会越练越精,越练越整。懂劲是太极拳入门的门槛,在懂劲之前,即使打的是太极拳套路,也还是外家拳。

懂劲是以筋骨架为基础,以劲力传递(其中包括攻击和转化)为目标的一个系统。没有经过量的训练和质的提高,是很难达到的。外家拳岂能通过深蹲等其他肌肉训练而得到?
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旧 Nov 24th, 2012, 19:19     #7
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默认

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作者: witty 查看帖子
甲方侧身前倾到位时,左手顺势朝后捎带对方小臂那么长的距离,如对这种跟拳击完全无关的技法有意视而不见,这个讨论到此为止吧。
甲方左手捎带对方小臂是顺势,其实左手真正的用途是保护,是护手,以防万一运动失利。只要身体运动到位了,这个带不带无所谓,实战中不能太教条,非要带一下才能打。而且这个甲方是拳击手,应该不懂得太极拳的“带”,此乃纯属巧合。实战中最重要的是身法步法,也就是前面朋友强调的距离感和反应。不懂身法步法的拳根本没用,是打不了人的。
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旧 Nov 24th, 2012, 19:56     #8
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默认 一次整劲的小体验

一次到冰库里工作,一道门的门缝上冻上了厚厚的一层冰打不开,就近也看不到合适的工具,头脑一发热,就地站立,左脚前右脚后,以开弓射箭的姿势,拧腰转胯将右拳送出,当时也怕手臂受伤,就没使全力,就听到门和墙,以及我的身体轰轰响,身体一点没事,感觉被震的还很舒服,只是拳头被冰渣扎得满痛,还好带着厚手套,拳头皮肉没有破。

同样类似的出拳动作,不同的发力方式就会得到不同的效果。这只是我一个小小的整劲体验,当然,离懂劲还差的很远。
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旧 Nov 24th, 2012, 20:02     #9
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默认

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作者: witty 查看帖子
太极拳到一定阶段,发劲就不靠下肢的肌肉。所谓“西山悬磬”,不妨找字典查一下“悬磬”的含义,再想象一下“西山悬磬”该是怎样一种状态,就会明白,中国内家拳追求的发劲机理,真跟大腿肌肉没多大关系。
忽然间有点所悟,我在冰库里那一拳的效果,是不是就是“西山悬磬”? 能否解释一下真正“西山悬磬”的含义?
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旧 Nov 24th, 2012, 20:04     #10
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默认

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作者: witty 查看帖子
你有没与人实战过?如果没有那个控制性的捎带,对方左前臂拳锋一转,就拳中自己脸部了。缺一不可高度精确的组合动作,怎么能是无所谓?这样实事求是的分析,“教条”么?
有道理,我错了。
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旧 Nov 29th, 2012, 19:46     #11
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默认

前面大家讨论的是碰撞力,而太极拳还有一种力:撑拔力,撑拔力是有穿透性的。记得有位高手跟我说,出拳时意要放远些,把目标设在对手的后面,这样才有穿透力。我的理解,这是一种意的引导,当拳接触到了对手时,靠身上的撑拔力,以及意的作用,拳还在往前运动。虽然,撑拔力的行程比较短,但它是靠骨架支撑的,骨头所能承受的压力是非常大的,再经太极拳的正确训练,就能够得到几乎是不可阻挡的力量。

现在的所谓力量测试仪器,只能测量碰撞力。而撑拔力既没有M,也没有V,只是一种力学结构,没法测试,就被排斥在外了。难怪当初,杨露禅就说过,太极拳不打木桩,只打活人,恐怕道理就在这了。
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感谢 smilejohn
此篇文章之用户:
Cookiemonster (Nov 29th, 2012)
旧 Nov 29th, 2012, 20:33     #12
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默认

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这是出拳的基本,并不是太极拳独有呢!又是时候潜水了,大家玩好。88。
饼怪兄别走啊,俺刚有空上来,你就要走,不好玩了。
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旧 Nov 29th, 2012, 20:36     #13
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默认

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用物理现象来解释一下
所谓的撑拔力其实就是将力量放出来了。我们平常看到一人打拳,总说劲没有出来, 或者说没有到手上等等,就是因为思想禁锢而造成阻塞。本来结结实实打一拳, 什么都有了,但是一练太极, 就想到要用根劲, 要用腰裆劲, 要松肩, 结果全紧张了,就没劲了。但是如果意念当中加上了放远一些, 可能就把那些所谓的腰裆劲忘了,反而劲都出来了。 其实,就假想对面站一个人, 你过去照他脸上一拳。这样一个假设,就把所有的劲都发出来了。 录一下像,会看得很清楚。
这个解释的很好,但这只是个外在的。内在原理是什么?太极拳不能老被人说成是说不清的拳。
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旧 Nov 29th, 2012, 21:24     #14
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默认

比如说,有两根相连的棍子,中间的节点是活的。当两根棍子的夹角大到接近180度时,或者说,就是175度吧,此时在中间的节点处给一个力,这时两根棍子的终端产生的顶力是节点处力的多少倍?我算不出来,力学基础好的同学能否帮个忙?
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旧 Nov 29th, 2012, 23:14     #15
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默认

不知道算得对不对哈,如果这个夹角是179度的话,棍子两端的顶力是中间绞支点作用力的110倍左右。

换句话说,如果绞支点的作用力是10磅的话,顶力就是1000磅;如果把100磅的体重作用在这个支点上,就会得到10,000磅的顶力,(当然,这个的前提是骨头受的了,还有地上不打滑)。

这个10,000磅的顶力跟那个打沙包2000磅的力相比,是不是大了很多?
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旧 Nov 29th, 2012, 23:34     #16
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默认 人的骨骼能承受多大的力?

从网上搜到的:

“人的骨骼的承受能力,如股关节承受力是体重的3-4倍,膝关节是5-6倍,小腿骨能承受700公斤的力,扭曲的负荷力是300公斤。人体骨头的坚硬程度赛过自然界的石头,一般骨头的承受力为2100千克/平方厘米。 不同的力的承受程度是不同的。”

难怪有位前辈跟人谈练拳体会时说,感觉自己犹如一个骷髅在打拳。看来如何充分发挥和利用骨骼架的优势,是一个很深的学问。
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旧 Nov 30th, 2012, 11:54     #17
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默认

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作者: witty 查看帖子
SJ思路大致不错,但表述得显然比较离谱,反生迹近荒谬之感。
旨在抛砖引玉,既然是块砖,少不了要夸张点。
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旧 Nov 30th, 2012, 12:04     #18
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默认

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作者: gametowin 查看帖子
麻烦画个图,想象不出来这个110倍怎么来的。谢谢啦
110倍算小的,越接近180度,两端的顶力就越大,甚至可以直至无穷大。我也不确认这样算对不对,希望能在理论上先有个突破,后面的才会顺理成章。太极拳的理论虽完善,但不定量,没法信服人。那位力学基础好的同学帮帮忙验证一下吧,算给太极拳做件好事了。
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旧 Nov 30th, 2012, 15:11     #19
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默认

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作者: 太极新手 查看帖子
smilejohn 的计算没有错,本质上是杠杆原理,武术中的横断劲便是这样用的。但是像smilejohn 说的那样来发力攻击,人体生理结构是不允许的,因为人体结构决定了力不能够从关节节点处始发,只能是远处肌肉收缩的结果,人体发力都是肌肉收缩造成的。
谢谢你的验证,不然的话,我说话就没有底气了。只要是理论上对头,至于如何应用那又是另一个需要研究的课题了。等我试着画画图,我们再进一步研究讨论。
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旧 Nov 30th, 2012, 15:48     #20
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默认

原理图:
上传的缩略图
点击图片以查看大图

名称:	tu 3.JPG
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感谢 smilejohn
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gametowin (Nov 30th, 2012)
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