我考虑目前买房比租房划算的原因，请评论

[到底谁傻]

There are always more people buying into the rally and selling into the dip than those who do the opposite.

作者: CBC

80-81年VANCOUVER的房价跌了近25%，89-96年TORONTO的房价跌了也差不多25%。80-81年地产暴跌应该是世界范围的，当时的石油和黄金价格都创出历史新高，现在的情况和当年有很多相似的地方，当石油和黄金见顶，地产崩盘估计避免不了的。会重现1980年一幕股票，石油，黄金，地产全线下跌的情景。所有的资产泡沫都被吹大的情况下一起都要破灭

[到底谁傻]

Savvy investors or consumers not only think about the tangible costs (e.g. mortgage rates) but also the opportunity costs (e.g. what one has to give up).

作者: 李大哥

现在还没到那时候，如果存款利率达到10％以上，我就不买房，把钱存银行，租房子住。可是，现在存款利率才百分之二点几，担心什么呢？

利率从3％升到10％还有很长的路程，而且这个过程肯定是个物价飞涨的过程。如果物价不飞涨，干吗提高利率？既然物价飞涨，房价凭什么不飞涨？这样，到存款利率10％的时候，投资买房的人早就赚大发了。到时，卖不卖，不是很主动吗？

因此，现在肯定不是你说的逃顶的时候。

[samqyang]

Interest Rate is the key;

Please go http://www.bcrealtor.com/d_bkcan.htm here to see the Bank of Canada 50 years interest rate chart;

At 80-81年, Interest Rate is over 15% and never happened again after;
89-96年, Interest Rate at short term (I consider 10 years from 85 to 95) peak at 89年, and then even the rate go down but Real Estate still drop until 96年,

Apparently, there is a delay if you compare the interest rate peek time to the house peek time; That's why at the first few years of interest rate hike period, the house price keep going up; Because most people are still in buying mode before they cool down by the impact of interest rates hike (another fact is that when interest rate need to be hiked, usually due to inflations, and at that moment the ecnomic is hot and more people have jobs in turn support the housing market);

So, my predication within 2 years, the house price will hold or slowly moving up there, and 2 years later may go down; And this predication only valid if interest rate keep going up steadly;

which means another 1-2% interest rate hike can make housing market cool down; And another 4-5% interest rate hike will for sure kill the market;

And today, the interest rate is still in the historcal vally, not enough to make the market slide down dramatically;

How fast the interest rate goes up will direct how bad the market will be;

So, the major point is, how soon the interest rate can above 6%, I mean bank of canada center rate;

作者: CBC

80-81年VANCOUVER的房价跌了近25%，89-96年TORONTO的房价跌了也差不多25%。80-81年地产暴跌应该是世界范围的，当时的石油和黄金价格都创出历史新高，现在的情况和当年有很多相似的地方，当石油和黄金见顶，地产崩盘估计避免不了的。会重现1980年一幕股票，石油，黄金，地产全线下跌的情景。所有的资产泡沫都被吹大的情况下一起都要破灭

[CBC]

现在因为经济全球化，通货膨胀比以前要小的多。所以利率要达到以前的10%左右是不可能的，不过价格的涨幅已经把低利率的优势消耗干净。我觉得北美正在走90年日本和97年香港的老路，由地产引发的经济大衰退和股市崩盘是不可避免的，而且杀伤力会很大。
前些天跟个建筑师聊，他说多伦多的CONDO市场已经比较危险了。以他亲身经历，91年的时候经济大衰退，从事建筑设计的人员多伦多市有50%被LAYOFF。

[到底谁傻]

The Bank of Canada rate was just raised to 3.5% on Jan 24. The market believes that an economic "neutral" (i.e. the rate that won't over heat the economy or drastically slow down economy) is 5% (so it's unlikely that the Bank of Canada rate goes beyond 5% in a year or two). If the Bank rate creeps up to 5%, commercial banks prime rate may reach to 6.75%. Of course mortgage rates should be lower than that.

However, the housing market is closely related with the economy not just the mortgage rates. What happened in the last many years was that low interest rates ==>> higher and higher housing prices ==>> increased wealth due to increased property value (for those who have properties already) ==>> increased borrowings backed by properties ==>> high levels of consumption financed by personal debts ==>> high levels of economy activities (70% of US GDP comes from personal consumption. Canada is a bit lower). In the past, these should have led to high inflation. However, huge amount of cheap consumer goods imported from China prolonged that process. Although the process is prolonged, it doesn't mean that inflation pressure is not there. Now we are seeing prices of commodities going through the roof and employment rate in Canada standing at 30-year high. The impact of interest rate increase is not just directly reduce the mortgage service ability of property owners, it also has negative impact on real estate market in an indirect way, i.e. tighten the debt-backed consumptions and ==>> slow down economic growth ==>>slow down or even negatate income growth == > less $$ going into real estate market==> cooling down of the housing prices.

After the 1 and 1/2 + year interest raise in US, Q4 US GDP growth was significantly lower than expected. When the full blown impact of US interest rate increase appears, when the Chinese are stuck with massive unprofitible production capacities after the 2008 Olympics (by the way, 2005 Chinese oil imports already dropped compared with 2004 levels), who's going to buy our oil? (Although I wish everyone including myself who own properties good luck), 2006 Calgary housing prices may not be at THE peak but close enough in my view.

作者: samqyang

Interest Rate is the key;

Please go http://www.bcrealtor.com/d_bkcan.htm here to see the Bank of Canada 50 years interest rate chart;

At 80-81年, Interest Rate is over 15% and never happened again after;
89-96年, Interest Rate at short term (I consider 10 years from 85 to 95) peak at 89年, and then even the rate go down but Real Estate still drop until 96年,

Apparently, there is a delay if you compare the interest rate peek time to the house peek time; That's why at the first few years of interest rate hike period, the house price keep going up; Because most people are still in buying mode before they cool down by the impact of interest rates hike;

So, my predication within 2 years, the house price will hold or slowly moving up there, and 2 years later may go down; And this predication only valid if interest rate keep going up steadly;

which means another 1-2% interest rate hike can make housing market cool down; And another 4-5% interest rate hike will for sure kill the market;

And today, the interest rate is still in the historcal vally, not enough to make the market slide down dramatically;

How fast the interest rate goes up will direct how bad the market will be;

So, the major point is, how soon the interest rate can above 6%, I mean bank of canada center rate;

[到底谁傻]

Totally agree. If these rounds of interest hike can yield a soft landing scenario, we should all feel very lucky.

作者: CBC

现在因为经济全球化，通货膨胀比以前要小的多。所以利率要达到以前的10%左右是不可能的，不过价格的涨幅已经把低利率的优势消耗干净。我觉得北美正在走90年日本和97年香港的老路，由地产引发的经济大衰退和股市崩盘是不可避免的，而且杀伤力会很大。
前些天跟个建筑师聊，他说多伦多的CONDO市场已经比较危险了。以他亲身经历，91年的时候经济大衰退，从事建筑设计的人员多伦多市有50%被LAYOFF。

[Perspective]

作者: 李大哥

1、咱们在比较买房自住和租房住哪个更合适，不是比较投资。

作为自己住的房子，房子卖出时，升值部分，不用交税。这和投资买基金，有很大的不同。

2、投资房子的风险几乎就没有，特别是从25年的时间跨度来看。25年时间里是5年平，3年跌，17年涨。

5、如果买房子，自己住，25年升值200％，23万的房子变成69万的房子，5万投资，收益64万，年平均回报11％多。

1 认为自住就不是投资是一个普遍的错误观点，因为第一，终有转手的一天；第二，地产税/遗产税直接体现房价。因此无论自住和租房都要当成投资考虑。从根本上说，每一天的时间都是投资，只不过很多收益和损失是难以用金钱衡量的。

2 如果你把风险定义为没有能达到其它途径所能达到的收益率，那么连现金都有风险，而且投资房子的风险并不小。因为和股市比起来，股市是大机构间的博弈，无论你依靠基金或指数去挣平均值，或是自营，你拥有的是很透明的信息和分析资源。而房市基本是个人与房地产公司对抗，每房都是个案，信息和分析都有限，更靠个人理解，个案跟不上大势的可能发生更大。当然一般房市受经济波动的影响小于股市（香港式的城市除外）。

5 算错了。五万只占23万的一部分，因此69万中的一部分归你（不考虑还贷）。

[samqyang]

Sigh; Even if everything you said is right, does that mean I should sell my current home and hold the cash, wait for another at least >5 years until the market down to the bottom;

I can wait >5 years for a stock, but how many people here can wait >5 years for a home; How many young 5 years do we have when most of us at 30+;

And if you are right, 5 years later, 20% of house price down (almost the worst situation in Canada history), which means 400K house today by 2011 is 320K; I have to rent for another 5 years (if 1000$ monthly rent, 60 K needed at least for 5 years); I saved 20K = 400K - 320K - 60K, but how much I lost; 5 years of my strong youngest life), 20K saved for 5 years totally different life style;

I would rather to try to earn more and enjoy more because anyway, the salary will increase, inflation will up, number wise, everything is going up; If I borrow 200K $ now and I can return it as late as possible, I will difinitely gain something; because every 10 years, people has 100% increase in their salary; 200k $ loan now at 10 years later will only left 100k for me if at that time I can earn double than now;

And from long term perspective, the house, especally detached house, almost always going up, price wise;

Please see URL: http://www.bcrealtor.com/c_graph.htm, then click on the <detailed value graph> button;

作者: 到底谁傻

The Bank of Canada rate was just raised to 3.75% on Jan 24. The market believes that an economic "neutral" (i.e. the rate that won't over heat the economy or drastically slow down economy) is 5% (so it's unlikely that the Bank of Canada rate goes beyond 5% in a year or two). If the Bank rate creeps up to 5%, commercial banks prime rate may reach to 6.75%. Of course mortgage rates should be lower than that.

However, the housing market is closely related with the economy not just the mortgage rates. What happened in the last many years was that low interest rates ==>> higher and higher housing prices ==>> increased wealth due to increased property value (for those who have properties already) ==>> increased borrowings backed by properties ==>> high levels of consumption financed by personal debts ==>> high levels of economy activities (70% of US GDP comes from personal consumption. Canada is a bit lower). In the past, these should have led to high inflation. However, huge amount of cheap consumer goods imported from China prolonged that process. Although the process is prolonged, it doesn't mean that inflation pressure is not there. Now we are seeing prices of commodities going through the roof and employment rate in Canada standing at 30-year high. The impact of interest rate increase is not just directly reduce the mortgage service ability of property owners, it also has negative impact on real estate market in an indirect way, i.e. tighten the debt-backed consumptions and ==>> slow down economic growth ==>>slow down or even negatate income growth == > less $$ going into real estate market==> cooling down of the housing prices.

After the 1 and 1/2 + year interest raise in US, Q4 US GDP growth was significantly lower than expected. When the full blown impact of US interest rate increase appears, when the Chinese are stuck with massive unprofitible production capacities after the 2008 Olympics (by the way, 2005 Chinese oil imports already dropped compared with 2004 levels), who's going to buy our oil? (Although I wish everyone including myself who own properties good luck), 2006 Calgary housing prices may not be at THE peak but close enough in my view.

[李大哥]

作者: 到底谁傻

The Bank of Canada rate was just raised to 3.75% on Jan 24. The market believes that an economic "neutral" (i.e. the rate that won't over heat the economy or drastically slow down economy) is 5% (so it's unlikely that the Bank of Canada rate goes beyond 5% in a year or two). If the Bank rate creeps up to 5%, commercial banks prime rate may reach to 6.75%. Of course mortgage rates should be lower than that.

However, the housing market is closely related with the economy not just the mortgage rates. What happened in the last many years was that low interest rates ==>> higher and higher housing prices ==>> increased wealth due to increased property value (for those who have properties already) ==>> increased borrowings backed by properties ==>> high levels of consumption financed by personal debts ==>> high levels of economy activities (70% of US GDP comes from personal consumption. Canada is a bit lower). In the past, these should have led to high inflation. However, huge amount of cheap consumer goods imported from China prolonged that process. Although the process is prolonged, it doesn't mean that inflation pressure is not there. Now we are seeing prices of commodities going through the roof and employment rate in Canada standing at 30-year high. The impact of interest rate increase is not just directly reduce the mortgage service ability of property owners, it also has negative impact on real estate market in an indirect way, i.e. tighten the debt-backed consumptions and ==>> slow down economic growth ==>>slow down or even negatate income growth == > less $$ going into real estate market==> cooling down of the housing prices.

After the 1 and 1/2 + year interest raise in US, Q4 US GDP growth was significantly lower than expected. When the full blown impact of US interest rate increase appears, when the Chinese are stuck with massive unprofitible production capacities after the 2008 Olympics (by the way, 2005 Chinese oil imports already dropped compared with 2004 levels), who's going to buy our oil? (Although I wish everyone including myself who own properties good luck), 2006 Calgary housing prices may not be at THE peak but close enough in my view.

1、samqyang说到点子上了，利率是关键因素。利率不上10％以上，经济不可能出现大衰退。经济不大衰退，房子就不会大跌。

2、政府的货币政策目标是，经济增长、物价稳定、充分就业和国际收支平衡。充分就业有什么不好？充分就业就一定能带来通货膨胀？从1936年到1969年，加拿大中央银行的利率一直维持在2－5％之间，特别是从45年战后，经济大发展，可利率一直维持平稳和低水平。因此，你所谓的经济稍有发展，就业率稍微高一点，就通货膨胀了？房子就要跌了？

3、加拿大经济过热了吗？安省、BC省还不是老样子？只有阿省由于油价上涨，才导致石油行业投资增加，带来一些就业机会。其他行业也没有过热。

4、房价离谱了吗？现在卡城的房价还低于多伦多和温哥华的房价。其他省份的房价更是在合理水平内。比如regina，80年的房子，2层，双车库，1600尺，地库全装修，现在才卖11万。其他象东部海洋省份，房价也是很低，十几万就能买大房子。

5、房价能上天吗？土地资源丰富，城市可以轻易扩大，劳动力、建材都可以做到供应充足。房价怎么能炒上天。只要扩大供给，房价就不能飙升。

只要政策得当，经济可以维持几十年稳定发展，充分就业，物价稳定。45年到70年就是个例子。现在，根本就看不到恶性通货膨胀的迹象。既然经济没有过热，何必担心高利率？没有经济过热和高利率，何来经济大衰退？没有经济大衰退，何来房价下跌？

[李大哥]

作者: samqyang

I saved 20K = 400K - 320K - 60K,

这个公式不对，应该是save=400k-320k+5 years mortgage-60k=400k-320k+72k-60k=92k

[李大哥]

作者: Perspective

1 认为自住就不是投资是一个普遍的错误观点，因为第一，终有转手的一天；第二，地产税/遗产税直接体现房价。因此无论自住和租房都要当成投资考虑。从根本上说，每一天的时间都是投资，只不过很多收益和损失是难以用金钱衡量的。

2 如果你把风险定义为没有能达到其它途径所能达到的收益率，那么连现金都有风险，而且投资房子的风险并不小。因为和股市比起来，股市是大机构间的博弈，无论你依靠基金或指数去挣平均值，或是自营，你拥有的是很透明的信息和分析资源。而房市基本是个人与房地产公司对抗，每房都是个案，信息和分析都有限，更靠个人理解，个案跟不上大势的可能发生更大。当然一般房市受经济波动的影响小于股市（香港式的城市除外）。

5 算错了。五万只占23万的一部分，因此69万中的一部分归你（不考虑还贷）。

1、买房自住和用来投资，在税收上是不同的。自己住的房子，出售时如果增值了，不用交税。如果是投资的房子，出售时要交税。另外，加拿大也不征遗产税。

2、这个我不跟你争论。事实是明摆着的。

3、我的计算没有错。首付5万，算做投资。其他25年交的MORTGAGE,相当于租房住的租金，这个算做生活支出，不算投资。这样和租房比较，才有可比性。25年后，房价涨到69万，实际收益就是64万。

[李大哥]

你炒股就每年都赚？每年都赚一样多？咱们不是算平均数吗？

以道琼斯指数为例，１９６４年１２月３１日：８７４．１２

　　１９８１年１２月３１日：８７５．００
17年只升了一点。炒股就稳赚？

[到底谁傻]

It's up to each individual to decide if he/she should bail or change life style. This is because the house we live serves dual purpose, consumption and investment. Consumption decision is made based on one's preference so no one else can feel the pain or joy.

Sigh; Even if everything you said is right, does that mean I should sell my current home and hold the cash, wait for another at least >5 years until the market down to the bottom;

Many people can't but some can. Again this decision is largely related with different people's preferences.

I can wait >5 years for a stock, but how many people here can wait >5 years for a home; How many young 5 years do we have when most of us at 30+;

What you'd have saved (or gained) will be the opportunity cost you lose by owning a house (e.g. your money is tied up in the house instead of earning some returns elsewhere) plus the value you lose in the house plus the expense you have to pay in the house. Of course, weather it's worth the change in life style, it's up to you to evaluate.

And if you are right, 5 years later, 20% of house price down (almost the worst situation in Canada history), which means 400K house today by 2011 is 320K; I have to rent for another 5 years (if 1000$ monthly rent, 60 K needed at least for 5 years); I saved 20K = 400K - 320K - 60K, but how much I lost; 5 years of my strong youngest life), 20K saved for 5 years totally different life style;

This is the typical and a normal response when people foresee inflation. Today's "inflation" is largely reflected in the value of property and commodities (although core inflation measurement includes neither of them), that's why it has to take a lot more interest rises to curb over heated economy.

I would rather to try to earn more and enjoy more because anyway, the salary will increase, inflation will up, number wise, everything is going up;

This is why when one does analysis on investment projects, they compare the present value of future cash flow with the present value of future cash outlay.

If I borrow 200K $ now and I can return it as late as possible, I will difinitely gain something; because every 10 years, people has 100% increase in their salary; 200k $ loan now at 10 years later will only left 100k for me if at that time I can earn double than now;

True until you compare a series future cash inflows and outflows based on today's value. Because of that, 1) one will not invest in projects that the net present value is negative, and 2) one will choose to invest in projects that have higher present values. Just to look at price differentials at different time to draw conclusion is not the way to go.

And from long term perspective, the house, especally detached house, almost always going up, price wise;
Please see URL: http://www.bcrealtor.com/c_graph.htm, then click on the <detailed value graph> button;[/QUOTE]

[samqyang]

Hi, All, everybody has his point; please help me analysize on this;


By the way,
According to chart from URL: http://www.bcrealtor.com/c_graph.htm, then click on the <detailed value graph> button;

I found that from year 1988-1990, the price almost doubled from 120% to 230% (230/120 ~ 1.917 ~ 1.38 ^ 2), average 38% per year;
I believes in a rule: how fast it up direct how sharp it down;

But from year 2000 -- 2006, the price from 260% to 430% (430/260 ~ 1.65 ~ 1.09^6 ) average 9% per year increase;

Does that mean if we have a slow mode up, very unlikely we will have a sharp drop as early 90s one;

Please provide your expertise;
I feel market may hold there weak but going nowhere for a moment;

[到底谁傻]

我从来没说投资股票稳赚，我的议论都是针对“投资房地产稳赚”的观点。

作者: 李大哥

你炒股就每年都赚？每年都赚一样多？咱们不是算平均数吗？

以道琼斯指数为例，１９６４年１２月３１日：８７４．１２

　　１９８１年１２月３１日：８７５．００
17年只升了一点。炒股就稳赚？

[到底谁傻]

The following was published back in Oct. Although the Bank said that Canadian economy is at "full capacity", many in the market place believe it's in the "excess demand" territory. This is why the Bank has kept raising interest rates. "Full Employment" in Canada means a ~6% natural unemployment rate. Now in BC it's about 4.9%, in Alberta it's about 4.1%. Ontario is at 6.2%. Obviously there's a lack of supply of labor right now in Canada.

Calgary doesn't have the natural beauty of Vancouver, nor the sophisticated frustructure of Toronto. There's no reason other than economic ones (e.g. higher income)that Calgary housing price should catch up with those two cities.

When looking at the timing to invest, it shouldn't take a major crisis to get someone think thoroughly (by then it'll be too late). Even without crisis in sight (if indeed 政策得当), 经济过热 is today's hard fact. When the Bank is expected to keep raising the rate to cool down economy, jumping into market without going through rigorous analysis is not a good idea.


Bank of Canada releases Monetary Policy Report
OTTAWA―The Bank of Canada today released its October Monetary Policy Report, which discusses current economic and financial trends in the context of Canada's inflation-control strategy.

The global and Canadian economies have continued to grow at a solid pace, and our economy now appears to be operating at full production capacity. Past and recent movements in energy prices and in the exchange rate for the Canadian dollar, along with competitive pressures from China and other newly industrialized economies, are giving rise to significant ongoing adjustments in the Canadian economy. Given these adjustments and the slow growth of productivity in recent years, the Bank has slightly reduced its estimate of potential output growth for 2005 and 2006.

作者: 李大哥

你所谓的经济稍有发展，就业率稍微高一点，就通货膨胀了？房子就要跌了？

3、加拿大经济过热了吗？安省、BC省还不是老样子？只有阿省由于油价上涨，才导致石油行业投资增加，带来一些就业机会。其他行业也没有过热。

4、房价离谱了吗？现在卡城的房价还低于多伦多和温哥华的房价。其他省份的房价更是在合理水平内。比如regina，80年的房子，2层，双车库，1600尺，地库全装修，现在才卖11万。其他象东部海洋省份，房价也是很低，十几万就能买大房子。

5、房价能上天吗？土地资源丰富，城市可以轻易扩大，劳动力、建材都可以做到供应充足。房价怎么能炒上天。只要扩大供给，房价就不能飙升。

只要政策得当，经济可以维持几十年稳定发展，充分就业，物价稳定。45年到70年就是个例子。现在，根本就看不到恶性通货膨胀的迹象。既然经济没有过热，何必担心高利率？没有经济过热和高利率，何来经济大衰退？没有经济大衰退，何来房价下跌？

[Winged Frank]

告诉你们，卡尔加里根本就不是一个买房子长期居住的地方，等油价高峰过去，它依然只是个鸟不拉屎的地方，这个世界并不是只有卡城一个地方有房子卖，还是被炒到离谱的地方，一帮子房皮子在那儿乐，还真有傻到接盘的，还有几千元就首付的，简直就是把命卖给了房皮子（东北那嘎大对房地产经济的尊称），这种房皮子小心遭报应，恁也缺德了，为了赚钱把人往死命里卖。
讨论这些干啥，这个地方就是先租两天房子，工作着，等工作机会没了，找个山清水秀的地方，买个房子养老，那才叫正途。

[到底谁傻]

不过卡城这地方多数时间被憋在屋子里，买个房子还是必要地，房子还是该买个住着舒服地！

作者: Winged Frank

告诉你们，卡尔加里根本就不是一个买房子长期居住的地方，等油价高峰过去，它依然只是个鸟不拉屎的地方，这个世界并不是只有卡城一个地方有房子卖，还是被炒到离谱的地方，一帮子房皮子在那儿乐，还真有傻到接盘的，还有几千元就首付的，简直就是把命卖给了房皮子（东北那嘎大对房地产经济的尊称），这种房皮子小心遭报应，恁也缺德了，为了赚钱把人往死命里卖。
讨论这些干啥，这个地方就是先租两天房子，工作着，等工作机会没了，找个山清水秀的地方，买个房子养老，那才叫正途。

[elissa]

我不是卖保险的，对投资的风险和回报也会打不清楚。假如你40 ，既然有每年交3。4千，交20年。保证65岁有25万的保险卖。如果每月付1000的，65岁保证可以拿到75万。换句话讲，投资回报也应该超过75万。

[谈论风华]

看了各位的，我也谈点体会。
1 投资是将现金转变成另外的资产形势，以期在转换回现金的形势后数量变大。所以不转换回现金的，不能算投资。比如买了23万的房子，这时是消费，房子价值变成40万，不能改变消费23万+的负现金流出。如果40万卖掉，这才能算投资，获利17万。但是如果卖了小的买大的，比如买了50万的房子，就是又进行50万的消费，因为现金在流出。股票也一样。总之，就是要脱手变现金才能完成投资。不过股票看起来更直观，除了买和卖干不了别的。房子连住带修，可能多年不卖（比如你买了一栋城堡当贵族，或鹰冠庄园酿葡萄酒），在投资和非投资之间变动。

2 住，无论租还是买，总是要消费的，现金流出多少和舒适程度正比。如果两者月消费一样或相差小，一段时间后一个归你，一个白花钱。谁都明该干什么了―――租车开的人多还是买车开的人多，那个花钱多？这时，绝对各人个案。华人里面每月花1500-1800租房的有多少，恐怕都买房了。这是租房比买房便宜的一个先决条件：别租和买的房子同等舒适的房子。

3 如果你一无所有，突然天降横财，给你1百万现金，没地产；或者目前价值百万的地产，没现金，你选那个（净值，各种税都已经清了）？

4 富人，应该是地产和金融投资都有的，首先拥有自己的房产（比如23万）应该是第一步，风险小于首先拥有23万的金融投资，除非你的职业就是全职金融投资。