【讨论】华尔街时报文章：为什么中国妈妈是一流的？

[Pucca普卡]

作者: sage

This is funny. Is she really that bad? Or was it just another PR strategy?

[我爱夏天]

不知蔡妹儿的女儿们是怎么看待她们母亲的这种教育方式的？她们快乐吗？如果她们认同，心里也很健康，那也没啥。我反正是无法做到。因为，她不让她女儿做的有些事，我觉得只要在安全有百分百的保证的前提下，我都愿意让我女儿做啊，或陪她一起做。我还和我国内的闺蜜说，希望哪天，不用带小孩了，有机会回去和闺蜜们一起sleep over呢，好怀念以前小时在好姐妹家里过夜的日子呢。

[陌上花开]

作者: windfjf

此人自己也算ABC华人之光了，不知道她的父母是怎么教育她的，简历太好看了。

Amy Chua
John M. Duff, Jr. Professor of Law, Yale

Education
J.D., Harvard, 1987
A.B., Harvard, 1984

Chua, the oldest of four daughters of Chinese immigrants, was raised to be "stereotypically successful." Three daughters have multiple Harvard/Yale degrees and matching high-powered careers. The youngest, who has Down syndrome, "holds two International Special Olympics gold medals in swimming."

As the beneficiary of such parenting prowess, Chua is the John M. Duff professor of law at Yale and already has two books with intimidatingly complicated subtitles - "World on Fire" and "Day of Empire." She must never sleep (she equates less slumber with a fuller life): She teaches full time, writes lauded books and papers, maintains a grueling travel schedule and, most important, devotes herself to Chinese motherhood. "The truth is I'm not good at enjoying life," she readily admits.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz1ApQIsm2x

[bitbrains]

One of the best piece I ever read.
For those who blaming the author, you just the group of people that can't get it. Put it in a nicer way, "Western parents are concerned about their children's psyches." It's OK as long as you get that answer of what is "a child's psych", or the definition of "a child's psych". LOL

[dreamvision]

作者: 我爱夏天

不知蔡妹儿的女儿们是怎么看待她们母亲的这种教育方式的？她们快乐吗？如果她们认同，心里也很健康，那也没啥。我反正是无法做到。因为，她不让她女儿做的有些事，我觉得只要在安全有百分百的保证的前提下，我都愿意让我女儿做啊，或陪她一起做。我还和我国内的闺蜜说，希望哪天，不用带小孩了，有机会回去和闺蜜们一起sl...

首先，她本身是否心理健康？是否感觉快乐？这还是个问题。象她自己所承认的：The truth is I'm not good at enjoying life," she readily admits.如果她自己都缺乏享受生活的能力，她再怎么有名声、有地位、甚至有钱，这些又有什么用呢？给别人看的？人不是为自己活着，是为别人的眼光活？

其次，象有些网友提到的：她女儿怎么样？心理健康吗？快乐吗？什么是短期的后果？有没有长期的慢性的后果？如果答案是肯定的，那么推一下，也无妨。
坏就坏在不了解自己的孩子、对孩子的期望超过他们的承受能力，导致悲剧的发生。那才是最可怕的。她这种教育方法，很可能达到成功，最终谁能享受到这种成功带来的喜悦呢？父母、孩子或者别人，如我们这样陌生人羡慕的眼光？

也可以被复制她的教育方法，只是在复制之前，想一想，可能给孩子带来的心理伤害，自己是否能很好地控制情绪、能否承受任何可能的不良后果？

[dreamvision]

看看作者比较偏激的方面吧：


　看看作者比较偏激的方面吧：

　在外过夜？如果了解孩子的朋友及其父母，去 怎么了？

　　看电影：跟父母去看电影有什么不可以吗？

　　出演校园剧：有什么理由不可以？

　　抱怨没有参演校园剧：她们不是孩子们，连抱怨也不可以吗？

　　看电视或玩电脑游戏：适当看一看，玩一玩也不行？

　　选择自己的业余活动：只能做父母为你选择的业余活动？不能有孩子自己的喜好？

　　考试成绩没达到A：多数时间或多数功课达到也不可以？

　　除了体育和戏剧外其他学科没有得第一名：体育和戏剧怎么了？低其它科目一等？

　　除了钢琴和小提琴外学习其他乐器：其他乐器不是乐器吗？

　　不学习钢琴和小提琴：再一次强调了钢琴与小提琴

[bluebox]

好像昨天是她的新书首发，这广告做得一分钱不花。

[陌上花开]

作者: bluebox

好像昨天是她的新书首发，这广告做得一分钱不花。

很牛的广告。

想了想，孩子的韧性很强，对一个自信的孩子，偶尔说他废物打败不了他，怕的是长期的带贬低的口气说他没用。适当给强制也没啥了不起，倔强的孩子自有他的坚韧。

有的人从轻松中得到乐趣，也有人喜欢压力，从挑战和战胜压力带来快感。蔡美儿一家子都很牛，最牛的是唐氏的妹妹还拿了几个金牌。她的遗传因子很强大，她那么聪明的人，能把握好这种强势。但要是把这种强势视为对待孩子的要素，很多人会学走样。朗朗的爸爸说过他怎样强势对待朗朗之后，很多母亲都觉得逼孩子就能逼出天才。

我是个相信天分的人，从来不觉得自己的孩子会是天才，能给孩子的很少，所以就想给孩子一点眼前的快乐。

[温哥华]

认识两家中国朋友, 父母骂小孩那是家常便饭,什么笨呀,傻呀,废物呀,总是闯祸什么的, 都小菜,父母开口就来,还不够爷爷奶奶姥姥老爷接着骂, to tell you the truth, 这两家小孩(都6岁)的抗骂的免疫力巨强,那叫一个皮实, 心理承受能力那叫一个强(至少目前比我家的强n倍), 说实话, 还是真有点儿羡慕.

[sage]

再看看蔡美儿的答读者问：

JANUARY 13, 2011, 10:51 AM ET
The Tiger Mother Responds to Readers

On Saturday, Review ran an excerpt from Amy Chua’s new book “Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother.” The article, titled “Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior,” attracted a lot of attention, generating more than 4,000 comments on wsj.com and around 100,000 comments on Facebook. Below, Ms. Chua answers questions from Journal readers who wrote in to the Ideas Market blog.



Erin Patrice O’Brien for The Wall Street Journal
Amy Chua with her daughters, Sophia and Louisa.

Do you think that strict, “Eastern” parenting eventually helps children lead happy lives as adults?

When it works well, absolutely! And by working well, I mean when high expectations are coupled with love, understanding and parental involvement. This is the gift my parents gave me, and what I hope I’m giving my daughters. I’ve also taught law students of all backgrounds for 17 years, and I’ve met countless students raised the “tough immigrant” way (by parents from Pakistan, India, Nigeria, Korea, Jamaica, Haiti, Iran, Ireland, etc.) who are thriving, independent, bold, creative, hilarious and, at least to my eyes, as happy as anyone. But I also know of people raised with “tough love” who are not happy and who resent their parents. There is no easy formula for parenting, no right approach (I don’t believe, by the way, that Chinese parenting is superior—a splashy headline, but I didn’t choose it). The best rule of thumb I can think of is that love, compassion and knowing your child have to come first, whatever culture you’re from. It doesn’t come through in the excerpt, but my actual book is not a how-to guide; it’s a memoir, the story of our family’s journey in two cultures, and my own eventual transformation as a mother. Much of the book is about my decision to retreat from the strict “Chinese” approach, after my younger daughter rebelled at 13.

I have a 20-month-old, and my husband and I both enjoyed the article. How can you apply this to toddlers?

We didn’t actually do anything that different when my daughters were toddlers, just the same kinds of things that you probably do already: read picture books with them, took them for strolls and to the playground, did puzzles with them, sang songs about ABCs and numbers and mainly snuggled with and hugged them! Maybe the only thing different I did is that I always had a babysitter or student speaking in Mandarin to them every day, for at least four to five hours, including weekends, because I wanted my girls to be bilingual. (I wanted my daughters to learn from native Mandarin speakers, because my own native Chinese dialect is Fujianese [Hokkien], and my Mandarin accent is terrible.)

Your method may work with children with a native high IQ—but demanding that kind of excellence from less intelligent children seems unfair and a fool’s errand. Demanding hard work and a great effort from children is the best middle ground we can reach philosophically, isn’t it? Your thoughts?

Jokes about A+s and gold medals aside (much of my book is tongue-in-cheek, making fun of myself), I don’t believe that grades or achievement is ultimately what Chinese parenting (at least as I practice it) is really about. I think it’s about helping your children be the best they can be—which is usually better than they think! It’s about believing in your child more than anyone else—even more than they believe in themselves. And this principle can be applied to any child, of any level of ability. My youngest sister, Cindy, has Down syndrome, and I remember my mother spending hours and hours with her, teaching her to tie her shoelaces on her own, drilling multiplication tables with Cindy, practicing piano every day with her. No one expected Cindy to get a PhD! But my mom wanted her to be the best she could be, within her limits. Today, my sister works at Wal-Mart, has a boyfriend and still plays piano—one of her favorite things is performing for her friends. She and my mom have a wonderful relationship, and we all love her for who she is.

Ms. Chua, are you a happy adult? Do you look back on your childhood and feel that it was happy? Do you remember laughing with your parents? Do you wish that you could have taken ballet or been in the high school musical?

I was raised by extremely strict—but also extremely loving—Chinese immigrant parents, and I had the most wonderful childhood! I remember laughing constantly with my parents—my dad is a real character and very funny. I certainly did wish they allowed to me do more things! I remember often thinking, “Why is it such a big deal for me to go to a school dance,” or “Why can’t I go on the school ski trip?” But on the other hand, I had great times with my family (and even today, it’s one of my favorite things to vacation with my parents and sisters). As I write in my book, “When my friends hear stories about when I was little, they often imagine that I had a horrible childhood. But that’s not true at all; I found strength and confidence in my peculiar family. We started off as outsiders together, and we discovered America together, becoming Americans in the process. I remember my father working until three in the morning every night, so driven he wouldn’t even notice us entering the room. But I also remember how excited he was introducing us to tacos, sloppy joes, Dairy Queen and eat-all-you-can buffets, not to mention sledding, skiing, crabbing and camping. I remember a boy in grade school making slanty-eyed gestures at me, guffawing as he mimicked the way I pronounced “restaurant” (rest-OW-rant)—I vowed at that moment to rid myself of my Chinese accent. But I also remember Girl Scouts and hula hoops; poetry contests and public libraries; winning a Daughters of the American Revolution essay contest; and the proud, momentous day my parents were naturalized.”

And yes, I am a happy adult. I am definitely a Type A personality, always rushing around, trying to do too much, not good at just lying on the beach. But I’m so thankful for everything I have: wonderfully supportive parents and sisters, the best husband in the world, terrific students I love teaching and hanging out with, and above all, my two amazing daughters.

What is your relationship with your daughters like now?

I have a wonderful relationship with my daughters, which I wouldn’t trade for the world. I certainly made mistakes and have regrets—my book is a kind of coming-of-age book (for the mom!), and the person at the beginning of the book, whose voice is reflected in the Journal excerpt, is not exactly the same person at the end of book. In a nutshell, I get my comeuppance; much of the book is about my decision to retreat (but only partially) from the strict immigrant model. Having said that, if I had to do it all over, I would do basically the same thing, with some adjustments. I’m not saying it’s for everyone, and I’m not saying it’s a better approach. But I’m very proud of my daughters. It’s not just that they’ve done well in school; they are both kind, generous, independent girls with big personalities. Most important, I feel I’m very close with both of them, knock on wood.

Read more on the controversy over Chinese mothers this Saturday in Review.

http://blogs.wsj.com/ideas-market/20...ds-to-readers/

[xyzok]

今天文学城上登的她女儿写的感谢信很感人！幸福的一家。

[sage]

作者: xyzok

今天文学城上登的她女儿写的感谢信很感人！幸福的一家。

能转过来吗？

[xyzok]

华裔作家蔡美儿(Amy Chua)新书「虎妈的战歌」(Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother)引发广泛争议后，她的大女儿蔡思慧(Sophia)18日特别在纽约邮报以发表公开信的方式，为母亲辩护。

　　以下是蔡思慧在纽约邮报标题为「我为何深爱我管教严格的华裔母亲」一文的摘要：

　　亲爱的虎妈：你的回忆录自刊出后，遭受众多批评，问题在于有些人无法体会你的幽默，以为你说的一切都是真的，推测我和妹妹受到一位邪恶母亲的压迫，但那绝非事实。

　　不过，外界很难真正了解我们家庭的实况，他们听不到我们彼此的谈笑声，也看不到我们享用炒饭加汉堡的美食，更无法想像一家四口加上两隻小狗，挤在一张床上为下载哪些电影争论不休的有趣画面。

　　我承认我有一位不可违抗的母亲，但现在18岁了，即将离开老虎笼上大学，我很高兴你和父亲如此教养我们，理由有下几点：

　　许多人指控你只会培养不会自我思考的机械化小孩，但我的看法相反，我认为你的严格作风让我们更独立。我记得有一次钢琴比赛我走上台后非常紧张，你就小声叮咛我「放轻鬆，只要全力以赴，不管结果如何」。

　　每个人似乎认为艺术属于天分，但你却教育我们，即使是创意亦需努力。我的同学都会参加我的钢琴演奏会，当然大部分人也是为了会后可品尝你做的水饺；我在卡内基音乐厅表演后，听到同学齐声欢呼，还感动流泪。

　　进入高中后，你也了解是让我长大成人的时候了。所有女同学在九年级开始学习化妆后，我也走进商店购买化妆品，并学习如何使用。当你见到我第一次画眼线时很惊讶，但并不在意，你让我历经成长的仪式。

　　另一个我经常听到的批评，是指你造成子女视野狭隘，但事实上，你和父亲却教导我为求知而求知，不附带其他条件或目的。在高三我选修军事历史课程，有项作业是要访问有参战经验人士，我本想直接访问有第二次世界大战经验的祖父，但你却认为这是偷懒，最后我访问了一位以色列伞兵，他的故事改变我的一些人生观。

　　最后，我想要让生活有义意的愿望，是一个普世认知。我认为这与成就大小或自我满足没有关系，而是要自己不断努力，把潜能发挥到极致。假如我明天就离世，我会感觉我已把我的生命活出110%。为此我感谢你，虎妈。

作者: sage

能转过来吗？

[xyzok]

中国自有古训：严是爱，宽是害。
人都是有缺点的，天生勤奋自律的人就跟天才一样稀少（因为他们本身就是天才）。相信我们绝大多数人，一生都没有能体会到因别人的掌声喝彩而流泪的感觉，那会是一生最美的回忆---如果那是父母给的，当然会对父母感恩不尽，一切辛苦都是值得的，人生的意义一部分也在于此：平凡人生的小小浪花，可以支撑着活下去。

[Pucca普卡]

Found this comment, thought was pretty interesting:
http://www.quora.com/Parenting/Is-Am...wer/Raymond-Lu

The stereotypical model of Asian parenting described here is actually a misguided, but rational response to acute cultural and environmental constraints that immigrant parents face.

Think of a mother who immigrates to the U.S. and gets a job in engineering after
graduating from a university in Taiwan. Naturally, she wants her kids to have a slice of the "American Dream." Despite her middle-class income, she is almost totally ignorant about the dynamics of social mobility in America today. As a non-native English speaker who gets her information from Chinese friends/family and Chinese-language media, she doesn't have a nuanced understanding of elite prep school and college admissions, doesn't know exactly what skills and activities she should encourage her kids to develop, and only has a passing acquaintance with the diverse opportunities available to smart college grads in Silicon Valley, Washington, New York, etc.

So when it comes time to start grooming her kids for "success", the Asian parent has very little in the way of good information to work with. She doesn't know how to crack school admissions, beyond emphasizing the kind of standardized tests that were so crucial to her own success in Taiwan/Asia. She doesn't know what interests her kids should have, with the exception of what she sees in the surrounding Asian community--violin, piano, martial arts, math and science competitions. And given her experience as a perpetual foreigner in a country full of hidden cultural and racial barriers for those deemed insufficiently American, she assumes that the best chance for her children to succeed is to get day jobs in linear, meritocratic fields such as engineering, medicine, or business. Consequently, she sacrifices her time, money, and even youth to give her kids tutors, piano and violin lessons, prep courses galore.

The irony is that none of this is particularly useful. Good grades and stereotypical interests in piano and violin won't get you very far in today's college admissions process; it might even trigger negative stereotypes of mindless Asian automatons. Getting day jobs as engineers, consultants, doctors, or lawyers can ensure a comfortable standard of living, but it's a far cry from being a successful VC, CEO, Executive Director, or industry leader.

The problem is twofold. Asian parenting cultivates discipline and persistence, but talent, innovation, and vision are the most important variables in separating employees who make $100k a year from entrepreneurs who make $10 million in an IPO. At the same time, key social skills in leadership, teamwork, and communication are neglected. Schmoozing properly at a networking event is out of the question. But even if you have no interest in becoming Steve Jobs or Mark Zuckerberg, creativity and leadership are invaluable in any profession.

Naturally, these ideas are difficult to grasp for Asian parents who immigrated to this country after spending twenty, thirty years steeped in Confucian culture, test-driven education systems, and societies with a limited opportunities for social advancement.

Amy Chua, however, is not a bona-fide Chinese mother; she was born and raised in the U.S., has firsthand experience with the institutional dynamics of a place like YLS, and married a white American. Why would she voluntarily reproduce the crude parenting strategies of first-generation immigrants deprived of the linguistic and cultural sensibilities necessary to understand social mobility in America?

I suspect the answer, as others referenced, is that she didn't--or that she eventually came around to a more balanced approach that incorporates the freewheeling, "indulgent" model of Western parenting with its more interventionist, and linear Asian counterpart. But the fact that she began from such an extreme position probably speaks to some unresolved personal issues concerning success and identity that her children unfortunately had to endure. After all, unlike the immigrant mothers who can credibly claim ignorance of the diverse pathways to success in America today, Amy Chua can, and should know better.

[redboy2000]

作者: xyzok

华裔作家蔡美儿(Amy Chua)新书「虎妈的战歌」(Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother)引发广泛争议后，她的大女儿蔡思慧(Sophia)18日特别在纽约邮报以发表公开信的方式，为母亲辩护。

　　以下是蔡思慧在纽约邮报标题为「我为何深爱我管教严格的华裔母亲」一文的摘...

挨砖贴来了。。。。我真没觉得这封信感人。相反，流露出母女关系的理性，或者冷静，甚至，距离。

先承认自己是酸葡萄，因为知道本身懒得研究教育，也教不出这么优秀的孩子。

不羡慕这样的母女关系。不遗憾我没有这样的母亲，也不遗憾自己没资质成为这样的母亲。

[TTQQ]

作者: xyzok

中国自有古训：严是爱，宽是害。
人都是有缺点的，天生勤奋自律的人就跟天才一样稀少（因为他们本身就是天才）。相信我们绝大多数人，一生都没有能体会到因别人的掌声喝彩而流泪的感觉，那会是一生最美的回忆---如果那是父母给的，当然会对父母感恩不尽，一切辛苦都是值得的，人生的意义一部分也在于此：平凡人生的小...

曾经听过一种说法，说“天才就是重复次数最多的人”，言外之意就是只要具有勤奋的精神和不屈不挠的斗志，就可以成为天才。其实天才就是天才，没有“因为”，只有“所以”。对于同样一件事情，天才和勤奋的人也许都能做到，本质区别在于，一个只需一次，另一个是重复了一百次。

[xyzok]

这段写得中肯，把美国人的秘密都写出来了。如果深挖的话，就是什么是成功的命题了。

不过，说实话，一般聪明而又比较正直诚实的人，都只能从教授、医生、律师那里谋职业，这跟基因有关很难改变的。这个世界掌握在恶者的手里，不是流氓坏蛋当不了皇帝和资本家，几千年来都是这样的。活到最后，就会觉得世俗的成功根本不值得羡慕--并不是吃不到葡萄说葡萄酸。

作者: Pucca普卡

Found this comment, thought was pretty interesting:
http://www.quora.com/Parenting/Is-Am...hers-Are-Super...

[catcherwogloves]

作者: xyzok

这段写得中肯，把美国人的秘密都写出来了。如果深挖的话，就是什么是成功的命题了。

不过，说实话，一般聪明而又比较正直诚实的人，都只能从教授、医生、律师那里谋职业，这跟基因有关很难改变的。这个世界掌握在恶者的手里，不是流氓坏蛋当不了皇帝和资本家，几千年来都是这样的。活到最后，就会觉得世俗的成功根本...

我认识的象牙塔里的教授，博士们，根本不稀罕这样的世俗成功。当然，世俗的人也不鸟这群人，说他们精神病，变态，更欣赏那些恶棍，流氓们的作秀，比如政客，演员。当然说白了，这个地球上就是生活着一群一群本来就不属于一个物种的人们，却勉强生活在一起，闹出种种矛盾。呵呵，人活着想那么多干嘛。

[sage]

作者: xyzok

中国自有古训：严是爱，宽是害。
人都是有缺点的，天生勤奋自律的人就跟天才一样稀少（因为他们本身就是天才）。相信我们绝大多数人，一生都没有能体会到因别人的掌声喝彩而流泪的感觉，那会是一生最美的回忆---如果那是父母给的，当然会对父母感恩不尽，一切辛苦都是值得的，人生的意义一部分也在于此：平凡人生的小...

女儿的文章只能说明WSJ断章取义，并为了销售选了一个带争议性的标题。
事实上Amy Chua也并非象她文章中所写的那样严厉，很多都是夸张的幽默，从一开始我就觉得挺搞笑，没想到许多家长都被刺痛了，并且认真地反击。