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旧 Aug 19th, 2007, 10:28   只看该作者   #41
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旧 Sep 6th, 2007, 22:26   只看该作者   #42
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旧 Sep 7th, 2007, 08:41   只看该作者   #43
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默认 顶啥呀, 没价值的东西

方舟子也算是理工科名牌大学毕业, 怎么就没点数字概念? 中药有毒需要一定计量. 您要是当饭吃当然顶不住. 但是在药方里, 那么点浓度就能有毒? 莫非是天下奇毒氰化钾?

还有什么"可能与上述药材混用而搀杂马兜铃酸的药材", 真是沾一点就算.神了

大家别吃猪肉了, 猪还沾过屎了
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旧 Sep 26th, 2007, 01:10   只看该作者   #44
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旧 Oct 9th, 2007, 21:20   只看该作者   #45
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旧 Oct 17th, 2007, 22:26   只看该作者   #46
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旧 Nov 13th, 2007, 02:20   只看该作者   #47
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旧 Nov 30th, 2007, 09:20   只看该作者   #48
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旧 Dec 5th, 2007, 18:47   只看该作者   #49
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ufo
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旧 Dec 11th, 2007, 09:59   只看该作者   #50
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旧 Dec 12th, 2007, 21:39   只看该作者   #51
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旧 Dec 20th, 2007, 00:05   只看该作者   #52
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旧 Jan 3rd, 2008, 22:35   只看该作者   #53
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旧 Jan 16th, 2008, 01:42   只看该作者   #54
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旧 Jan 28th, 2008, 01:37   只看该作者   #55
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旧 Feb 1st, 2008, 14:05   只看该作者   #56
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旧 Feb 1st, 2008, 14:06   只看该作者   #57
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◇◇新语丝(http://www.xys.org)(xys.dxiong.com)(...git.com)◇◇

  还用保护中医?

  铁翼牛虻

  现在药店里尽是中成药,反正对病人的慢性病治不了也死不了人,隔段时间
还会来买是长期生意。医院开的“西药”到处都找不到买,为什么?中成药给药
店的提成高啊,甚至医院开药也会增加一些中成药,费用超过了“西药”,当然
你要告诉他没钱,或者认识医生熟人介绍,他就会把中成药给删掉。

  短时间来说,用些没用或者疗效不佳或者掺了“西药”成分的中药也不会怎
么样,不管怎么说,现代人比古代人的生活质量还是要强多了。但是中医的推行
会导致社会资源的配置会出现偏颇,诚信和求实的精神会遭到破坏,这才是最为
可怕的。社会素质的下滑和崩溃,是有中医的一份功劳。

(XYS20080201)

◇◇新语丝(http://www.xys.org)(xys.dxiong.com)(...git.com)◇◇
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旧 Feb 12th, 2008, 09:21   只看该作者   #58
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揭开中药的面纱

记者:Richard Stone
美国《科学》2008年2月8日
(翻译:方舟子)

  大连,中国——基因组学、蛋白质组学、代谢组学……本草组学?做为揭开
大自然的生物化学秘密的最近一次进攻,位于这个海滨城市的一个中国团队正开
始一项15年计划,试图鉴定出在中国用了数百年的草药药方的成分。

  本草物质组计划是最新的——也是最雄心勃勃的——试图让中药现代化的一
次尝试。这些古老的药方——多达40万个方剂、用了1万种草药和动物酊剂——
是中国许多人选择的治疗方法,常常是唯一的方法。在1970年代,在中药的启发
下研究人员从青蒿中发现了青蒿素做为抗疟疾的良药。但是中药的名声由于其不
可靠的疗效和严重的副作用而大受损害,导致批评者抨击它是过时的民间医术。
“中药不是建立在科学,而是建立在玄学、巫术和传闻的基础之上,”生物化学
学者方是民说,他以方舟子为笔名自任中国科学警察。他认为本草物质组计划只
是“浪费科研经费”。

  为了反击中药的批评者,本草物质组计划将采用高通量筛选、毒性检验和临
床试验以鉴定出常用药方中的活性成分和毒性污染物。“我们需要确保中药是安
全的,并且显示它不止是青蒿素,”在上海药物所负责中医药现代化项目但未参
与本草物质组计划的郭德安说。最初的目标是癌症,肝脏和肾脏疾病,以及用西
药难以治疗的其他疾病,例如糖尿病和抑郁症。

  中国科学院最大和科研资金最充足的研究所之一——大连化学物理研究所获
得了一笔5百万美元的启动基金用以研发纯化方法;科技部正在审核这个计划,
打算把它划入自2010年开始的下个5年计划的一项7千5百万美元的创新规划中。
今年春天北京香山会议——类似于中国的戈登学术会议——将为此举行一个规划
会议。

  中药界的几名权势人物已支持这项规划。“开始这个项目正是时候,”上海
中医药大学校长、化学家陈凯先说。上海中药创新研究中心理事长惠永正说,制
药公司应该会对本草物质组计划感兴趣,因为它能够鉴定出许多候选药物。

  在世界上许多地方,传统医学药方是通过口述代代相传的。但是在中国,2
千多年前的医生已开始编写药典。虽然在大城市西医已大体上取代了中医,但是
许多中国人仍然相信中医药做为预防药物和治疗慢性病很有效,而在乡村的中国
人还在依赖它。“我们大多数人在感到身体不适时,就吃中药,”大连化学物理
研究所的梁鑫淼说。

  自从毛泽东时代以来,中国政府就在强烈支持中医药,部分原因是因为没钱
向大众提供西医药。中国媒体至今还忌讳把中医称为伪科学。“对许多中国人来
说,批评中医药是无法想像的,几乎就像是犯了叛国罪,”方舟子说。

  支持者坚持认为中医药可以提供很多东西。但是伴随着每一项中药成功的宣
称,都有不良反应的报告,有的来自天然毒性成分,有的来自杀虫剂之类的污染
物。中药剂量也难以确定,因为药方的效力根据草药产地和采集时间而发生变化。
不同的厂家和不同的批次的药物质量能够出现差异。“这就是为什么许多人不信
任中药,”郭德安说。在中药现代化进程时,质量控制是一个首要关注的问题。

  本草物质组计划打算把现代化带到一个全新的水平。这项计划是梁鑫淼首先
提出的,他相信许多中药是有效的。“问题是我们不知道它为什么有效,”他说。
主要的障碍是药方很复杂。做为一个例子,梁鑫淼展示了一种用以外涂消除肌肉
疼痛的药方“红花油”的色谱图。梁鑫淼说,在化学家处理的许多样品中,一个
峰通常代表一种化合物。但是对红花油来说,一个峰是许多化合物,将之分馏产
生了更多的多化合物峰,就像俄罗斯套偶。梁鑫淼说,红花油至少由1万种化合
物组成:“我们只知道100种。”

  面对这种复杂性,“我们必须发明新的方法学,”梁鑫淼说。“这是本草物
质组计划的战场。”首先,他在大连化学物理研究所的45人团队正在研发新的分
离介质。草药将被分解成“多组分”:相似的成分为一组。为了确定哪种物质是
有益的或有毒性的,他的研究组计划设计本草组芯片,其中的化合物将根据它们
与关键多肽的结合能力进行筛选。扩大后的本草物质组计划将会有国内外许多研
究机构的人员参与。

  本草物质组计划有隐藏的危险性。其中之一是担心西方制药公司会通过改造
该计划鉴定出的化合物研发出销量巨大的药物,掠走战利品。为了对抗这种可能
性,郭德安说:“我们鼓励科学家不要急于发表论文,并先(对鉴定出的候选药
物)做结构改造。”然后团队会对一组相似结构的化合物申请专利。

  并不是所有的中医业者都接受对中医药去神秘化。“有些人担心传统会丧失
掉,”陈凯先说。但是惠永正说“为了调和西医知识导向的演绎法和中医经验导
向的归纳法”,现代化是必要的。方舟子另有看法:“你能够结合占星术和天文
学,炼金术和化学吗?它从来就行不通。”

  惠永正坚持认为中医能与西医共处。梁鑫淼希望他的本草物质组计划将会证
明惠永正是对的。

Science 8 February 2008:
Vol. 319. no. 5864, pp. 709 - 710
DOI: 10.1126/science.319.5864.709

BIOCHEMISTRY:
Lifting the Veil on Traditional Chinese Medicine
Richard Stone*

DALIAN, CHINA--Genome, proteome, metabolome … herbalome? In the
latest industrial assault on nature's biochemical secrets, a Chinese
team in this seaside city is about to embark on a 15-year effort to
identify the constituents of herbal preparations used as medications
for centuries in China.

The Herbalome Project is the latest--and most ambitious--attempt to
modernize t raditional Chinese medicine (TCM). The venerable
concoctions--as many as 400,000 preparations using 10,000 herbs and
animal tinctures--are the treatment of choice and often the only
recourse for many in China. In the 1970s, TCM tipped off researchers
to qinghaosu, a compound in sweet wormwood whose derivatives are
potent antimalaria drugs. But TCM's reputation has been blackened by
uneven efficacy and harsh side effects, prompting critics to assail it
as outmoded folklore. "TCM is not based on science but based on
mysticism, magic, and anecdote," asserts biochemist Fang Shi-min, who
as China's self-appointed science cop goes by the name Fang Zhouzi. He
calls the Herbalome Project "a waste of research funds."

Hoping to rebut TCM critics, Herbalome will use high-throughput
screening, toxicity testing, and clinical trials to identify active
compounds and toxic contaminants in popular recipes. "We need to
ensure that TCM is safe and also show that it is not just qinghaosu,"
says Guo De-an, who leads TCM modernization efforts at the Shanghai
Institute of Materia Medica and is not involved in Herbalome. Initial
targets are cancer, liver and kidney diseases, and illnesses that are
difficult for Western medicine to treat, such as diabetes and
depression.

The Dalian Institute of Chemical Physics (DICP), one of the biggest
and best-funded institutes of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, won a
$5 million start-up grant to develop purification methods; the
Ministry of Science and Technology is reviewing the project with a
view to including it as a $70 million initiative in the next 5-year
plan to start in 2010. A planning meeting will be held at a Xiangshan
Science Conference--China's equivalent of a Gordon Research
Conference--in Beijing this spring.

Several TCM power players have thrown their weight behind the
initiative. "It's the right time to start this project," says chemist
Chen Kai-xian, president of the Shanghai University of Traditional
Chinese Medicine. Herbalome should appeal to pharmaceutical firms, as
it could identify scores of drug candidates, says Hui Yongzheng, chair
of the Shanghai Innovative Research Center of Traditional Chinese
Medicine.

In many parts of the world, traditional medicine recipes are handed
down orally from one generation to the next. But in China,
practitioners more than 2000 years ago began to compile formulations
in compendia. Although in major cities Western medicine has largely
supplanted TCM, many Chinese still believe in TCM's power as
preventive medicine and as a cure for chronic ailments, and rural
Chinese depend on it. "For most of us, when we feel unwell, we want to
take TCM," says chemist Liang Xinmiao of DICP.

Since the Mao Zedong era, the government has strongly supported TCM,
in part because it was too expensive to offer Western medicine to the
masses. It remains taboo for Chinese media to label TCM as
pseudoscience. "Criticizing TCM is unthinkable to many Chinese and
almost like committing a traitorous act," says Fang.

Proponents insist that TCM has much to offer. But for every claimed
TCM success, there are reports of adverse effects from natural toxins
and contaminants such as pesticides. Dosages are hard to pin down, as
preparations vary in potency according to where and when herbs are
harvested. Quality can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and from
batch to batch. "That's why many people don't trust TCM," says Guo. In
the modernization drive, quality control is a paramount concern.

Herbalome intends to take modernization to a whole new level. The
initiative is the brainchild of Liang, who believes many TCM recipes
are effective. "The problem is, we don't know why it works," he says.
The main hurdle is the complexity of the preparations. As an example,
Liang shows a chromatograph of Hong Hua, or "red flower," a
preparation applied externally for muscle pain. In many samples
chemists deal with, one peak usually represents one compound, Liang
says. But for Hong Hua, each peak is many compounds, and fractionating
these yields more multicompound peaks like nested matryoshka dolls.
Hong Hua is composed of at least 10,000 compounds, says Liang: "We
know only 100."

Faced with such complexity, "we must invent new methodologies," says
Liang. "This is the battleground of the Herbalome project." For
starters, his 45-person team at DICP is developing new separation media.
Herbs will be parsed into "multi-components": groups of similar
constituents. To determine which substances are beneficial or toxic,
his group plans to devise Herbalome chips in which arrays of compounds
are screened for their binding to key peptides. The expanded Herbalome
project would involve researchers at many institutes in China and
abroad.

Herbalome has potential pitfalls. One is a concern that Western
companies will develop blockbuster drugs--and walk away with the
spoils--by modifying compounds identified by the project. To counter
this possibility, says Guo, "we're encouraging scientists not to rush
to publish and do structure modifications [to identify drug candidates]
first." Teams would then apply for patents on groups of similar
structures.

Not all practitioners embrace TCM's demystification. "Some are afraid
that the traditions will be lost," says Chen. But Hui says that
modernization is necessary "to reconcile the knowledge-oriented,
deductive process of Western medicine with the experience-oriented,
inductive process of TCM." Fang has a different take: "Can you marry
astrology and astronomy, alchemy and chemistry? It never works."

Hui insists that TCM can coexist wi th Western medicine. Liang hopes
his Herbalome project will prove Hui right.

With reporting by Li Jiao in Beijing.

(XYS20080211)

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wuchang69 当前离线  
旧 Feb 19th, 2008, 09:24   只看该作者   #59
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还讲小儿看病

作者:白衣嘴饭

话匣子一打开还真有点欲罢不能,毕竟所讨论的多在自身从事范围之内,在
关上之前还免不了要啰嗦几句。

闲人提到:“当小孩几天没有大便我问怎么办,我们的主治医生说吃点肥儿
丸就可以了,我去药店看了一下,里面有雄黄(硫化砷)。这样的医生如果我不
怀疑就是对小儿健康的不负责任。”本人对肥儿丸倒不熟悉,所以只能和大家一
样百度一下,却未发现该组方含有雄黄(硫化砷)。也许不同厂家组方有细微差
别,若闲人有条件再找到说明书看一下,是不是看错了,既不要放过一个坏人也
不要冤枉一个好人。也许有些矛盾是在一系列不经意的误解当中逐渐放大的。

再比如,就拿肥儿丸为例,其功能与主治说明为健胃消积,驱虫。用于小儿
消化不良,虫积腹痛,面黄肌瘦,食少腹胀泄泻。有人会以为肥儿丸说明书中没
有说没拉大便可以吃,而且是治泄泻的,就认为医生在乱开药。其实,如果肥儿
丸真的有说明书中的效果,那对于消化不好没拉大便的小儿也是有效的。再举个
自己熟悉的——培菲康的说明书提到的适应症是“主治因肠道菌群失调引起的急
慢性腹泻;也可用于治疗轻、中型急性腹泻,慢性腹泻及消化不良、腹胀。”门
诊有时对便秘小儿开培菲康,其实使用这类调节肠道菌群的药物治疗便秘非常普
遍且有效,副作用甚小。有些家属看了说明书后不干了,“你的药是治腹泻的,
想害死我小孩啊!”即使说明解释了,有些家属也还是满腹狐疑,对医生的信任
大打则扣。要是忘了解释,就更可想而知了。【方舟子按:市面上“肥儿丸”有
两种,用于治疗“大便干结”的“郑州肥儿丸”由苦杏仁、雄黄、郁金、蜂蜡、
君子仁、明雄黄、甘草等组成。更常见的“肥儿丸”由肉豆蔻、木香、六神曲、
麦芽、胡黄连、槟榔、使君子仁等组成。后一种虽然不含雄黄,但是所含的木香、
槟榔、使君子、肉豆蔻已知有肾毒性、肝毒性或能致癌。为了治疗“消化不良”
这种小病而冒着损害肾脏、肝脏和致癌的危险是完全不值得的。这些都是中国的
医生未必知道(中成药的副作用不标明,平时又不看文献,怎么知道?),或知
道也不会告诉患者的。拒绝副作用未标或不明的药物要从儿童做起。家长不要给
儿童吃中药,医生也不应该给儿童开中药,否则是把儿童的身体健康当儿戏。】

近来有许多人通过自身体会对小儿就医发表感想,细看下来大都是说医生用
了不该用的药,住了不该住的院,医生总是恐吓说小儿病很重。而且以小儿最终
没有用药,没有住院,最后也好起来作为证明。甚至也有加之就医时的其他一些
不快经历,得出医生全是骗人骗己的结论。

其实小儿的疾病和成人是有很大不同的,小儿的疾病多数是轻的,急性的,
很多时候通过自身调节可以自愈的,所以在有些时候不听医嘱而自愈的时候,家
属就会对医生的话产生怀疑,认为药开得太好太多,话讲的太重,若在医患极不
信任的时候,容易怀疑医生别有用心。成人似有不同,轻的,急性的捱捱也过去
了,慢性病多,不容易好,恐怕只会担心医生开的药不够好。

那么,有没有医生过度治疗的时候呢?不但有,还相当普遍。一是因为小儿
的疾病虽大多较轻,但有时变化极快,有些甚至很重,常有朋友有其他事到过住
院病区后发出感叹:原来小孩也会生这些病啊。加之小儿不能表达或不会准确表
达自己的不适,所以当儿科医师看似简单,实则风险极大,因为很可能一个尚未
发展的重病人就隐藏在许多看似病情不重的小儿当中,一旦病情变化,由于小儿
各器官系统发育不成熟,可能就是致命的。这种为保险起见而可能实施的过度治
疗,虽然可能挽救隐藏着的少数重病人的生命,却损害了更多病情其实不重的患
儿的利益,显然是不妥的。因为可能有更好的制度保障来平衡两者之间的关系。
但无论有多好的其他制度保障,作为具体医疗行为决策者,儿科医生在如何把握
好这个度上仍然是一个极大的挑战。即使是X提到的在美国发生的,这个让国内
患者似乎觉得完美的让人羡慕的就医过程,美国医生也需要把握好这个度,只不
过其决策时的干扰因素少得多,单纯的多。具体的干扰因素在《美国医生来到中
国》一文中提到一些,这就是所谓的国情,不知是医患不信任导致了治疗过度,
还是过度治疗导致医患不信任。总之,两败俱伤的一头,是几百万医护工作者,
另一头,是十几亿患者。

还有一大原因是经济利益,这一点已经有很多人在说了。至于哪个才是主要
原因,嘴长在自己身上,各说各话吧。

有人说:比医生还牛的普通患者一抓一大把,不要看不起只读了一两本科普
的人,即使是医学上的见解,很多时候说不定都超过你这种不读书的小医生。—
—只是不知道说这话是爱患者呢还是害患者。

最后与“不读书”的小医生有关:只要怀着平和的心态读你的文章就会知道,
你并无恶意,相信你能成为好医生。

(XYS20080219)

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wuchang69 当前离线  
旧 Mar 22nd, 2008, 10:41   只看该作者   #60
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