[ZT]話說WEISS DAC202

[lighting]

作者: sgyyz

拜托啦。。。你赶快看看上面的Burson是怎么一回事。他的discrete有他说的那么好吗？

我说这Burson 那么眼熟，我在选OP-amp 时，见过有烧友用Burson，这是我见过的最变态的升级，因为原先的板子放不下，换上后，只有弃屏蔽罩不用了。

[sgyyz]

6Moons那评论者说Burson Audio还好过Weiss DAC。他个人比较prefer Burson Audio。如果只论斤两，Burson Audio肯定重过Weiss，因为它用了很多discrete components，就连电源也两个分开了。但这样不代表它的音质好过Weiss。只能说不一样的音质。

[silent_fish]

On general image density in the stage's outer quadrants, it did better than the Weiss which is denser in the center but fades a bit at the edges. If you find the Weiss somewhat cerebral, the Burson is clearly more earthy and gutsy. It is stronger on tone saturation and image heft. This difference is not subtle. It's like swapping a transistor preamp for a tube preamp*. In my context depicted above, I had a clear preference for the Burson. Given the price difference—the Weiss is essentially three times more—and the HA160D's excellence on headphones for which the Weiss provides no sockets, this was a real discovery. Far from being a fashionable convenience feature, the 'D' part of the new HA160 stood on its on own feet with exceptional merit.

So after such a long paragraph, only the clause "It's like swapping a transistor preamp for a tube preamp" counts. You can see how many conditional sentences he used and in a smart and confusive way.

[sgyyz]

作者: silent_fish

So after such a long paragraph, only the clause "It's like swapping a transistor preamp for a tube preamp" counts. You can see how many conditional se...

This is what I don't understand. Even Burson Audio itself claims they excel in solid state. They claim "Burson sounds good like a solid state should" (refer to Burson's web site, the top banner).

In other words, does 6Moons mean using all discrete components can make stuff sound like tube?

It's confusing ... Like I said 6Moons' stuff are hard to comprehend at times ...

[hugoo]

Yes, you are right, I read in many different places about solid discrete components can make a system sound much more "tube like", whatever it means..

But oh man.. they just can't tell you straight what they feel, it has to be buried deeply and put in such a confusing way..

I wonder if all reviewers are actually WOMEN! I am pretty bad when comes to dealing with women, probably that's why I am really bad reading across lines in those reviews too.. LOL.

作者: sgyyz

This is what I don't understand. Even Burson Audio itself claims they excel in solid state. They claim "Burson sounds good like a solid state should" ...

[silent_fish]

Clearly from review burson has more line,weight and midrange density compared to Weiss.

Bass is also better.

If you value those elements over others, that could be a good choice.

[sgyyz]

作者: silent_fish

Clearly from review burson has more line,weight and midrange density compared to Weiss. Bass is also better. If you value those elements over ot...

You know what I listen to ... My LP will upset if she reads this. Now who wants my rDAC?

[hugoo]

You have to think what other components have been used in that review.. by the end of the day, the reviewer was listening to a WHOLE SYSTEM with player/pre-amp/power-amp/speakers/cables, each components can influence the sound, and the interactions between those components can also influence the sound as well.. so when you put this into your own system, you may or may not get what the reviewer felt during his review.

Bottom line is what he/she heard it is not just that one DAC, it is that entire system.

Always listen with your own ears in your own system if possible, review can be a starting point, but never put up your money solely based on someone's review..

作者: silent_fish

Clearly from review burson has more line,weight and midrange density compared to Weiss.

Bass is also better.

If you value those elements over ot...

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

You have to think what other components have been used in that review.. by the end of the day, the reviewer was listening to a WHOLE SYSTEM with playe...

I've been digging around that Burson HD-160D. Majority of the users who say it's good for them are using it to power headphone with its DAC as decoder! It looks like Burson is really good as a headphone amp.

But there are quite a few (small number) say the other wise ... So it's really system dependent.

[hugoo]

作者: lighting

对 Forsselltech MDAC-2 /class A discrete JFET，也一样，网上一定有可信的负面评论！我找找看。

谢谢！ 过几天要记得汇报哟！

[hugoo]

Not only system dependent， also depends on people's expectations, their preference on sound, even their mood in that period of time when they listening to that gear..

This thing is such a moving target, until the moment you hear it yourself, you just cannot be sure!

作者: sgyyz

I've been digging around that Burson HD-160D. Majority of the users who say it's good for them are using it to power headphone with its DAC as decoder...

[silent_fish]

since you guys have heard my DAC2, so that is the starting point to know how Burson should sound

The rest of Burson's sounding not convered in review are:

dynamic
detail level
imaging
seperation
background darkness
bass/midrange texture
extension

[有门!]

作者: hugoo

lighting评评这个，很冷门的东西

Forsselltech MDAC-2
http://www.forsselltech.com/#!/products/5

用的class A discrete JFET， 专业界有人把它跟万元级的DAC比。
我好奇这class A discr...

我猜是：A类离散场效应管？

[有门!]

你们的机器都比我的先进，但其实声音差别不会很大的。我的是MISSION DAC5很老的家伙（超过20年了），但至今仍在忠实地效力。

[老广]

作者: lighting

你为什么不先说说你的Aune2011，与DAC2 的听感差别，我等得春天都过了，也不见你的评测！

还有，聚会后，就一句谢谢Hugoo 的款待， 然后呢？

没多少惊喜。1/10价钱的机不可比吧。sgyyz那台比Aune多一点点高低频，主要是高频。Aune感觉平了一些。区别都没两根喇叭线大。实际上我用Aune的数码输出到DENON N7解码（最高是24BIT/96K的）高频也要好一点点。听觉上悦耳一点，毕竟数字传输。同时感觉就数码声多了。我认为只有UP SAMPLING可能会有好一点点的表现。这是我用AUDIO DVD的体会。SACD也是这个道理，DSD解码输出是可以不需要低通滤波器的。

[100khz]

作者: 有门!

我猜是：A类离散场效应管？

因该是：工作于甲类的结型场效应管分立元件放大电路。
这样的电路结构转换速率很高，记得有一个电路转换速率可达200V/uS.
不过，手上有几个1000V/uS的运放

[hugoo]

好久了，总算看你又浮出水面了

具体到DAC上用这种电路有什么优点和缺点呢？这可能是个很傻的问题，斗胆问一问高手。

作者: 100khz

因该是：工作于甲类的结型场效应管分立元件放大电路。
这样的电路结构转换速率很高，记得有一个电路转换速率可达200V/uS.

[100khz]

作者: hugoo

好久了，总算看你又浮出水面了

具体到DAC上用这种电路有什么优点和缺点呢？这可能是个很傻的问题，斗胆问一问高手。

改善低端的力度和控制力；缺点：元件要求高，选配困难；容易自激，或振铃。

[lighting]

作者: hugoo

好久了，总算看你又浮出水面了

具体到DAC上用这种电路有什么优点和缺点呢？这可能是个很傻的问题，斗胆问一问高手。

这种用分立器件电路，可以打个比方，如对冲基金经理和指数的区别，90 % 的基金经理5年不光做不过指数，还有60% 倒闭，但剩下的也许5 %， 会得到几倍于指数的收益。

能做分立的，难在质量控制，和他们的设计测试水平，故障率一定会比集成高很多，在理论上，信号干扰会小许多，有利于音场和小信号的表现，还可以调进自己的个性声音。

但实际上，有赖于这家公司是不是真正的模拟分立大家，国内也有很多不用opamp IC, 只做分立的，作出名声了吗？

所以我说得找找负面评论以判断这家公司是不是如好多国内公司般只是卖个噱头，似乎如你说的有点冷门，但确实有烧友发现故障率有点高。

[hugoo]

谢谢两位。看来分立的如果作的好质量过关还是有他的优势的。

这个forssell根本就不是针对发烧市场的，很少有烧友在用，都是专业的用在录音棚里，在pro audio圈子里颇有名气。

他们和很多专业厂象PRISMSOUND等都提供HOME DEMO服务，这点引起了我的兴趣，值得试试…反正不喜欢退回去就是了

作者: lighting

这种用分立器件电路，可以打个比方，如对冲基金经理和指数的区别，90 % 的基金经理5年不光做不过指数，还有60% 倒闭，但剩下的也许5 %， 会得到几倍于指数的收益
能做分立的，难在质量控制，和他们的设计测试水平，故障率一定会比集成高很多，在理论上，信号干扰会小许多，有利于音场和小信号的表现，还...