不要轻易来加拿大

[rabbitjessy]

作者: Spongebob2

请问“这里赚钱是赚不过国内的这句话这么理解”？有比较标准吗？

This society is already very mature , therefore it doesn't have too much opportunity to make big money. However, China is on the booming trend, so it's very easy to get opportunity to make good money. Money you make in Canada is just enough for very standard life , nothing will be luxury. But in China, things are really differnet.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: Spongebob2

it's very easy to get opportunity to make good money?？？？
另外你的good money大概标准是多少，让我看看对不对？

In big city of China, such as Shanghai, Beijing, people who have over 6 years professional sales or other professional experience can make 200kRMB/year. At least, most my friends in shanghai's income is above this. Toronto is also fianacial center in Canada, but it's very hard for immigrants to make decent money . 50k isn't high income, How many new immigrants can make over 50 k CDN/year in Toronto? .

From business perspective, we can easily get many business information and opportunities in china depending on our years networking and experience, . However in Canada, we are just new comer. We have no networking at all.
I am sales in here, the only way for me to get client is cold calling. When I was sales in shanghai, I have lots of networking and resources to get client. This is the difference between Canada and China. I believe that I can be good sales again after serveral years .However, we are not young people any more. Life doesn't have too much time to waste.

For very decent living in Canada, personally i think that it requries 150k /year at least for family. "Decent living style" means a lot ,not living a house which has some rooms to rent out or saving money from entertaiment ,grocery etc....

Anyway, this is only personal perspective. Some of my friends think I am very demanding on life. I think that I am kind of person.But there's nothing wrong for people to expect decent life.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: Spongebob2

首先搞清楚什么是labour工？
其实很难界定什么是labour工。我对labour工的定义是劳力市场里价格低的劳动力。雇主很容易找到的劳动力。跟体力好像并无什么必然关系。其实一些真正重体力活的工作大多数来的技术移民不能胜任。而在加拿大这类活往往工资不低！例如电厂的大型装机工人据我所知年薪六万加币以上不成问题。另外机场的装卸工人收入也不低。但是这类工作要求一定技能。不要以为简单小看。来这边要改变就业的观念，什么专业工，labour工，这类国内的思维到这边是不适用的，这里只有有工作和没工作之分。注意这里的一个特点，一些看似脏，累，危险的活，往往工资不错，比如电工，Plumper,CNC set-up oprator,各类民用设施维修技工，算上加班六万加币以上不成问题。好的十万也是常见的。关键是你能不能干。这也是加拿大社会收入差距不大的原因。不像国内，你雇个保姆，没错是便宜，但各位中华同胞你想过没有，这合理吗？你月收入以万计算，是你保姆的十数倍，你开汽车，你的保姆骑单车，你的快乐建立在什么之上？？？你又是怎样的官本位思想？？？里面的矛盾你想过吗？但在加拿大如果你是保姆，你一样可以开车，一样有个Hourse,不过就比有钱人差而已。

所谓“专业工作”你就要考各类证书，certificate,培训。只要你努力找到所谓的”办公室的“，”有前途的“工作我觉得不难。最怕就是自以为有不错的水平，国内干过什么什么职位，领导过什么什么项目，非什么不干这种心态。其实如果专业对口，符合这边类似企业需求，国内有不错经验，在加拿大找份工作是不难的。收入嘛也不错。所以如果有心来的朋友可以在登陆前就着手调研这边跟你国内经验最强的同行企业状况。这样你能较快就能找到工作。

You made good point. The goal of canada is to make people equal. Currently China is unequally developing in some filed. This is one of the reason I said that China has more opportunities for people to make money.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: waitforwife

我同意他的观点。当然我没有那么高的要求，非要150K每年，这样在加的生活真的极其富裕了。在这里50K每年应该就能过上在国内200KRMB的生活了。
我有个个人观点，任何在国内做PROFESSIONAL工作的人，千万不要在这里做LABOR工。即使有些LABOR工PAY的不低。当然要首先保证生存的人另当别论。只要存款没有问题，宁愿失业不要做LABOR。因为做LABOR影响心态，浪费时间，对将来没有任何用处

50K income in here won't be same as 200kRMB in China. Even 50k/person won't be the same. You do need make a clear list to compare what you can get in here. My currently family income is above 100kcdn in here. I feel very tight on my life. I never used to cacluate what I spent every month in shanghai, however I do track every nickle I spent in Canada. In happy day of shanghai, I can spend whatever I like ,there are still fair amount saving in my bank left each month. In Toronto, I need make budget for every single item to make sure my saving account to grow postively.

[rabbitjessy]

[QUOTE=Spongebob2]你知道为什么看到那么多抱怨吗？有一个解释值得注意：适应了这边生活的移民，真正投入了加拿大生活的，感到有滋味的移民往往远离了新移民的圈子，以前他们也经常在一些华人论坛抱怨几声，但现在往往潜水了，或者根本不来了。因为他们有很多事去忙，这是种趋势。于是你看到了那么多抱怨。

That's abosutley right!!!

老实讲在我的朋友圈子里，我还真没感到象地狱般的人，偶尔抱怨也有，但都过得挺好的。还有，北美自古是强者的天下，对新移民讲来这里要暂时抛却中国人谦逊，圆滑中庸的性格。当然在华人圈子就另外一会事了。血泪控诉中国有何曾少？我不是一味的吹捧加拿大什么都好。但坦白讲我是喜欢这里的生活的。我现在过得还很满足。

To stay or not , it's very personal choice. It all depends on personality. Personally, I perfer more vivide envoirment , so I thought Canada is too quiet for me. Secondly , I am sales, it's much harder for me to establish whole new business network. But as what I mentioned before, it's still possible to be successful business people through many years .

如果你非得对比加拿大，美国，中国。温家宝总理在美国说了句实话：“中国要赶上美国至少需要100年的时间。”注意这是指总体水平。单拿少数人无法比较。你说越南怎么样？那里的少数富人活得不比你上海的差多少。但是你如果说，我就是中国的那少数顶尖的一类人，那我也敢说，在这北美你也可以得到新的感受。如果你说在中国是中不留的，那过来好过。如果你说我岂不是叛国？我反问你：你在国内干坏事也叫爱国？没那事！！对得起家人朋友就是爱，就是爱国了。

I am not sure if china need another 100 years to catch Wester developed country.

All in all, personally I really suggest most friends stay in china to develope their life not Canada. There's nothing easy for new immigrants. I did learn a lot in the past 2 years .But I think that it really hurt myself on certain degree.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: Spongebob2

除非你的银行存款年利息可以达到60KCAD每年，而且也不盼望什么了，只想过几天休闲日子，否则在这里就得每天奔忙，就得淄铢必较，寸土必争。直到可以退休的那天。就我接触过的中小企业的老板而言都是极其忙碌的，有时我们下班了，他们还在忙。
为什么你在这里觉得过得很紧，原因很多，有个人的原因（如果你期望银行存款象国内那种增幅，那么你那100KCAD年收入确实是不够的)也有环境因素造成的，另外就是生活方式和观念的不同，举个例子这里的DIY程度比国内高，想省钱就得DIY，但在国内因为有廉价的劳动力，所以一些服务和商品可以很便宜。但我个人认为这不是一个健康的经济和社会。也是为什么很多人喊人民币升值，但就是没见涨的因素之一，当然人民币不升原因复杂。我个人认为人民币几年内会升值，但幅度不会很大，因为中国经济确实健康增长了不少。

另外你说的I can spend whatever I like，这句话我就不理解了，好的西服上海有卖十几万一套的，地皮靠近外滩更是国内中高收入以下想都不用想的。我想你的whatever指的是到洗衣店干洗衣服，打的，逛百佳买生活用品，吃食，一些家用电器，短途的一些旅游吧，停车费，水费电费，管理费，保姆费，林林种种诸如此类吧。没错这些东西总体讲国内是比这里便宜很多。但我想一个合理的社会不应该是有的人生活消费占收入很大比例，而有的人很小。另外健康的生活应该不奢侈浪费才对。其实如果你仔细动心思，在加拿大还是可以玩的开心又较便宜的。只要你仔细找，你想到的东西都能找到。只是这里没那么多空闲时间倒是真的。除非你退休了。接不接受这点因人而异。

还有就是心理上的原因，因为对大多数新移民讲，这里人生地不熟，不像国内亲朋戚友一大群，心理安全感比这里强，所以有时花钱真的就舍得，敢花！另外国内经济让人目眩耳昏，城市建设普天盖地，人人走路生风，个个恐后争先，谁都没有仔细想过明天，只会认为明天工资会更高，阳光会更好！这是好现象，也是隐患！我认为一个成熟经济是有起伏的。这是人性，没法改变。
另外一些国内奇高的生活服务用品，相反这里到很便宜，大家最熟悉当然是汽车，另外就是游艇，一两万加币就有一条，当然你要考牌。维护费用不是很高。当然你如果讲我是住在桂林的，或苏州的，一条木船更便宜，那我就没话可说了。说到下馆子吃饭，也不是很贵，我就去了不少。总体讲这里的生活质量还是比国内高出不少的！！至于开不开心，觉得有无前途，能不能成就一番事业，因人而已，这里也有机会，只是要明白来这里的人除了偷渡不要命的，难民之外，你还要面对来自很多国家的人才的竞争！到那里都一样，要努力，除非那天真的到了天堂！呵呵。。。。。。

Well, I agreed with all your point in here. Actually I did compare some details over and over again. However, I don't know why my life doesn't happy like before. Maybe just like what you mention --lack of secruity. I just don't feel Canada is my home. One of friends think I haven't been here long enough. I don't think so. As competion on career, I never scare that. I am doing pretty good . My boss really apprciated my working talent. After 3 weeks intensive cold calling, this week I got 4 business opportunities for my company so far. It's very impressive to him. However , I still don't feel so comfortable living in Canada for my life time. This is why I suggest people not to come .

Sometimes ,I am so confused. Maybe I am older and older now , more and more responsbilities coming into my life. This is why my life doesn't have so much fun any more. Who knows

[rabbitjessy]

作者: Spongebob2

的确，人生就是如此，两头轻松中间紧！要说来到这边思想上缺失的是什么，我想有两个：第一个是旧目标的暂停，而新的工作目标在调整，有人调整长有人很快找到新的目标，各人不同。此期间自然是难受的。第二个深层的东西我想是缺少了国家荣誉和民族认同感，来这里只有为家人和自己奋斗了！对加拿大始终没有家的感觉。这是任何人都无法改变的事实。但是如果你在这里久了，在这里奉献过青春岁月，撒下过辛勤汗水，某天你矗立回首之际，发觉这里的一草一木原来也可以有感情的，不光是冷漠的干净漂亮，这时或许你会慕然发觉加拿大也可以是个家，又或许认同了这里的国家的理念，想为这个社会做点什么，想维护这里的一些什么也说不准了。但对很多移民讲，特别是来的时候年龄越大的，还有就是两边飞的，确实是会少了点这么个东西的。这是没办法的事情。就好像国内当年出省城读书打拼一样，年纪大的总想着家乡。国内也一样。不过我是这么看的：现代社会技术发展已经让时空阻隔已经变得很小了。人的社会价值或者实现价值的空间应该从更广义的全球范围看。也许我的思想太前卫了些。扯远了。平时又有谁想这些鸟东西！当我瞎扯巴，呵呵。。。。。

You are right. I hope that I will fall in love with Canada in one day. Anyway, it's very nice to exchange opinion with you, spongebob. I like that cartoon a lot. ^_^

My msn is busyqian@hotmail.com . I wish that we can have some chat in future as well.

Thanks!

[rabbitjessy]

作者: baobao1

嘿嘿，看来你在加拿大的收入肯定没有到100k，否则你就不会这么说了。 在我看来，要想和国内200k的生活保持基本同步，那么在加拿大得有个15万一年比较合适。

Excatly.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: 闪客

楼上说15万加币的同志，别高兴太早了。年薪上到8万基本就停滞了。而且年薪越高，税越高。我觉得要比生活水平的话，这里的年薪转换成人民币（x6.7），然后除以2，就是相等了。
如果你这里税后5万加币，那么国内如果挣到5x6.7/2=17万，就持平了。
我就准备回去挣这个17万了。

I thought your dream is to be enterpeur after your MBA. I think that I remeber u now.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: waitforwife

150K我是想也不用想的目标。除非我重新开始读书。但我还是认为在国内200k什么也做不了。确实来加拿大为了什么？我想了很久，我认为我来这里不为了物质要求，因为物质要可能在这里3年后才赶得上国内现在的标准。可为了什么呢？也许是一种“自由”，一种“挑战”，或者一种“安全”。可能三者都有，所以选择来了这里。可我仍然认为这里不会有事业，过安定的生活还可以，要发展，真的难。

Except 200k rmb and comments on career , I agree with your rest of idea. My family income in china is above 250k since we have 2 sales at home. I bought 2 apartments before 2000. Additional that , I also saved money for immigrantion. Honestly i didn't live in luxury in shanghai, but life was easier due to the cheap labour fact.

As the career issue. the founder of ATI is Chinese. If he can succeed, why we cann't? Set a goal and go for it. Last 150k ,I think that there's possilbe for you to reach it. As long as your wife work , I beleive that dual income is possible to reach 150K after years . Baby boomer will start to retire at 2008. At that time, there are talents shortages in higher level position. You just need prepare for that .

[rabbitjessy]

"一位老兄单身收入5万加币，税后剩5×70％＝3.5万。如果你不买房子，吃喝300，租房400，加汽车400，总工一年剩3.5-1.3=2.2万，"

That's not the life style whose make 200kRMB in china. 300CDN is not enough for dinning out or good quality food. 400CDN means you share room with other people, no privacy.
Look these expense carefully, it means you won't buy any thing besides your essential life needs . Honestly I cann't adapt my perious lifestyle into this 50k CDN. In sum, Canadian living cost is much higher than what you can imagine.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: waitforwife

If you have 35K net income, why not spend 1000 CAD on rent without share with others, why not spend 500 CAD on dinner. Plus 400 CAD for car, the total annual expense are about 23K. You can remain 12K, that's fine. In case of 200K RMB in China, the net income after tax is about 165K. Monthly cost on car is about 8K, because you have to buy car with loan. Monthly rent is about 1.5K(comparable with apartment of 1000CAD in Canada), and dinner cost is about 1K. As a result, 165K- 121k=44k. Compare with the two amounts, which one is better? I think 12K CAD can buy more goods than 44K RMB in China(except labor). If in China, you live with your parents or your parents afford your apartment, that is another case which cannot be compared with rent here.

Why I need buy car with loan ? Most of my friends buy car with cash. My loan payment in here is only 150CDN/ month. If I like , I can pay off them at once. And I did live with my parents, however I pay for their living expense ,not exploit from them. 8k / month on car , I haven't heard from any my friend doing that. 150kRMB isn't huge number for people like my age. Most my friends have nice condo and car at same time since all of them are making good moeny for over 5 years.

Anyway ,life isn't easy as what we compare and discuss in here. I feel happy for you , coz you seems really enjoy here. That's great !

[rabbitjessy]

作者: arirang

我还年轻（还不满３０），收入只会越来越高，而不象在中国，看不到丝毫的希望。

My current manager told me that his income was 2 times higher than now. Another old Canadian gal told me same thing. Have you read a recent survey about average Canadian income ? it only increase 2.5% in the past 25 years. Since Canadian economy already has been developed , salary raise only depends on inflation. However , salary rise quickly due to booming economy. Especially on skilled labour and trade man industry.

As your other comments, I don't agree as well. Just few simple question for you : How many cars you family have ?
Are they brand new car or heavliy used car ?
How much your wife spends on cosmetics, clothes ,shoe ,beauty salon ,spa every month ?
How much your house worth ?
How much you spend on decoration ? Especially kitchen, bathroom ?
How many vacation you take per year ?

I suggest that you make simple survey on people who make 50k CDN and people who make 200kRMB ,comparing result . I bet that you will have better idea about Canada living cost.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: arirang

加拿大的工资涨幅小是因为大量低技术含量的工人的工资涨幅小。我现在只是一个中级人员，公司也愿意培养我，工资当然会涨很快，我同事一年涨了三次薪水，差不多有２０％。当然涨到一定幅度会缓下来，但我那时也有资格去选择更好的机会。加拿大并不全是夕阳工业。

现在回答你的问题：
１）在中国我没有，在加拿大有新车一部
２）在中国我太太一年的所有开销大约１０万人民币，现在远低于此数，花费差异主要是学费，其他差不多。
３）在中国我的房子价值９０万，这里的价值３０万
４）都是精装，房价已经包括
５）在中国我没有休假，工作很忙，很累，没有什么福利。现在享受公司的所有福利，包括休假。

另外，我不需要调查吧，因为我自己的情况我很清楚，对别人的情况我不感兴趣，我唯一了解点的是我表妹家，在上海工作，收入和我差不多，但依然不敢买车，房子虽然是复式但肯定没我现在的贵。我就是因为工作很累，看不到希望才出来的。当然，我出来后，同事的收入涨了５０％，但我不一定能涨那么多，因为我已经到头了，到了我工作能力的极限（按项目提成）。当然每个人的情况不一样，我只是发表我的观点，没有必要大肆针对我吧。

Your life sound good . But I am not sure about your house decoration. Most 300k CDN house I saw, the decoration is not nice. I guess that it might have different cirteria on judgement. My bf's brother pay $2000 CDN on a chair , the average dish plates he has is $35. Last time i saw a new decorated house near Finch and Bayview, it is really well-done decoration. 3 fire places ,sana , triangle bath tube, Brazil wood floor etc. The owner told me that he spent 120k CDN on decoration. He said that he isn't satisfied yet. I didn't argue with your point on purposely. Everyone come from different background and life , so the way to judge new enviorment is all depends.

Anyway, I think that most people will have some conclusion based this long discussion. I learned some from this thread as well. It was fun!!

I hope that your life will be better and better in every day.!

[rabbitjessy]

作者: arirang

strongly agree to Knowledge_IS_Power.

50K is beginning salary here. 80K is not difficult to get in 5 years. 20W in China means hard working, no vacation and no choice (tiao cao).

50K isn't salary for entry level job. Each industry has different entry level salary . As I knew , 50K should be regarded as intermediate level salary. Senior tech person salary start 75K. These salaries will be slightly different upon company size. In sales and marketing filed , 35k is entry level for junior sales and marketing people, even less in small company.

200kRMB in China also doesn't mean top salary at all. Friend of mine is just a business consultant, he is making 380kRMB during his probation year. Most my sales friends in Shanghai, 200kRMB is just their basic package, they can get extra bonus and commission. Furthermore, most of my friends take vacation and always receive new offer from outside companies.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: arirang

for an experienced immigrant, 50K is beginning level. not for an entry level job, OK? I know most immigrants need to change their profession or upgrade their technology, we are not talking about this situation.

I am experienced sales profession. I haven't change my job, however my salary isn't up to 50k. I really don't understand your definiton of experienced immigrants. Most immigrants are very experienced in their filed. At average level, 50k isn't entry level salary. There's one Chinese PHD engineer girl in my bf's team. She has been working in Celestica for over 6 years. She is professional and experienced even before celestica. Her salary is only 65k. Recently she just changed job to ATI, I heard that offer is around 70k . Her title in ATI is commodity manager. Her starting salary in Celestica was low 40k.

So what do you think about that case ? Actually I think that our discuss digress too far now. Believe or not , 50k for a family is very tight.

You mentioned your wife spent 100kRMB per year on cosmetics ,spa, clothes, but she spent less in here .I really doubt. 100kRMB/ year on fashion in China is high too. It means that your wife buy lots of high end luxury goods ,such as Parad, Burbery, LV etc.... If she still shop same brand in here , the price isn't cheap. Have you ever go shopping in Bloor west or HR ? Luxury goods in Canada is more expensive than China, USA. So how come her expense on these items lower ? My monthly budget for clothes and cosmetics are $400 CDN now, it 's very tight. Honestly I cann't buy too stuff much under this budget. If your wife still purchase same level brand goods in here but spend less, I really should learn from her. ( I am not joking on this point. I am bad at finance managing.)

[rabbitjessy]

作者: arirang

you are "experienced sales profession", but I don't believe you are experienced sales profession in Canada. Your salary depends on your long term accumulation, so your case is not representative. By the way, I know lots of salespersons just graduated from high school, so I don't think you are actual professional. Don't tell me a doctor, teacher or secretary is experienced professional here.

A no-experience graduate from college is able to get 30K or more. normally an experienced professional can get much more. "experienced" doesn't mean how many years in China, it means your knowledge conforms Canadian requirement.

I know lots examples. My wife don't have any experience, but her salary is more than 35K. Lots of people graduted from work experience workshop get more than 45K. usually they can get 50K in half a year. My first job is more than 50K.

I am not sure your career background. The difference between sales who holds high school degree and sales who is well educated in university marketing are very different. Some sales position doesn't require any marketing or business knowledge, for some sales require strong business experience ,ie 4A advertising account manager, industry sales ,ERP software sales . These kind of sales require sale person industry knowldege, project management , strong negation skill , strategy planning , creative writing etc.. So if people who owns these kinds of knowledge are not professional enough in your mind, can you give me your definition for professional. Professionals doesn't define by income. Truck driver can make over 60k/ year, however my Canadian professor doesn't define their occupation as professional.

Secondly , through your description, it's obvious that your salary and experience are at middle level and all your past working experience can be totally transplanted into Canada. Therefore, 50k isn't easy to get at beginning. Please don't mislead other people on this point.


I thought that you missed my point. Salary structure all depends on industry. If everyone easily get job and make very decent income in here, this topic won't exist any more.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: arirang

I agree. but we are talking a person earning 50K. normally the family income is more than 65K, it isn't very tight.

Hi, I thought that we discussed 50k family income equal or better than 200kRMB /year . Please read the previous thread carefully.

Personally I think that the decent living for a family in Canada requires 150kCDN. I am working on this goal right now. ^_^ Another "40K" to go.

For average new immigrant family , 65k / year isn't normal at all. My ex landlord family have been here for over 3 years, their income is still lower than 45k. However, I do see many high income immigrants family too. One couple got 120k CDN offer after landing in here 3 months.

There are many factors influcing family income and career development. My life isn't totally mess in Toronto ,but I still suggest people not to move here.

[rabbitjessy]

作者: waitforwife

有道理，任何事物都应该在一个标准下比较。我就拿上海200K收入（只了解上海的情况）和Toronto50k收入的比较。以一个家庭为单位吧，夫妻两人，没有小孩。一对夫妻带了100K存款到上海工作，年收入200K。租房1.8K(一房一厅)，吃饭1.5K（偶尔在外吃饭，不包括经常的朋友交往的开支，象我过去和朋友交往的开支在3K），交通费500（仅是偶然Taxi，不然不止这个数），衣服化妆品1K（不包括美容和Spar），健身400/2人。公共事业及电话手机费800(手机算很省了吧). 200K税后大概在165K, 所以一年该家庭可省下100K. 在上海工作一年后可以用全年部积蓄买辆200K的车了. 第二年, 车子消费2.5K/month , 扣去原来需要的500交通费, 开支增加2K/month, 一年剩余75K. 如果计划买150万的2房一庭房子(现房,不包括期房,在上海这价格属于极普通但也不算太差的房子),首付款需要45万,加上其它交易及税费, 共需要50万.这样这个家庭需要6至7年才能买房. 买房后有105万的贷款,贷15年的话, 每月还款在10K,再加物业管理, 减去前面说的租房1.8K, 每月增加费用8K, 也就是每年不但没有剩余,还需要在其它开支中省出来.
一个两夫妻的家庭带20KCAD来多伦多,有一份50K的年收入. 租房800(一房一厅), 吃饭350(可以偶尔出去吃吃了吧), 公共事业费0, 电话80(包括电话卡, 手机,座机), 交通200(2张Metro PASS), 衣服化妆品100, 健身20/2人. 50K税后35K, 扣除开支剩余16.4K. 第二年用16K买辆新车, 车子月开支400, 减去两人的200月交通费, 月开支增加200. 每月剩余14K. 如果买300K的CONDO(和上海150万房子品质差不多), 首付90k, 自己带来了20K的钱, 剩余70K的钱加其它手续费等也需要6至7年存款. 买房后, 每月还贷1.2K加上公共事业费和管理费600, 减去前面租房的800, 每月费用增加800, 每年还剩余2K的费用.
这样一比较,我想200K在上海和50K在多伦多应该差不多了吧.

Questions

Expense in shanghai

公共事业 ---- What this include?
Condo-- 1M can buy 2 bedroom with 2 bathroom condo in subway line. I just sold my home at that price. My home is located the intersection of Dong Fang road and Pudong Ave. It only took 20 minutes or less to Huahai Rd. Shanghai's real estate is full of bubble. The price has cool down now.


Expense in Toronto
$100 clothes and cosmetics. ---you must t be joke or your family don't buy too many clothes

$350 food-- Not enough ,unless you buy low quality food. Groceries only $400 for 2 people in my family. Restrautant $200 /month. I go out 4 times every month, which is less than what I did in shanghai. I am restraunat person.

$20 gym for 2 person--- Can you tell me where you get this deal ? I haven't seen any decent gym center to offer such deal

Does your condo expense include property tax ?

[rabbitjessy]

作者: waitforwife

I have said everything shall be same level. 100$ clothes and cosmetics here are comparable with 1K in Shanghai. If 100$ is not enough for you here, 1K is also not enough in Shanghai. The others are same.

Your apartment on Dongfang Rd is only worth 1M. It shall be very old or very small (less than 100 squre M). Otherwise you get a loss. I am familiar with Shanghai real estate market very much. My wife is expert in such field.

My apartment is 120 square meter , which was built in 1997. It's not new. Probably I sold at low price. $100 clothes are not equal with $1000RMB in shanghai. It's very very true. My clothes expense in shanghai was$2500--$3000/month. In canada I spent $400 /cdn month, but I cann't get same quantity and quality as what I got in shanghai.