Feb 4th, 2004, 20:55 | 只看该作者 #41 |
Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 44
|
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by menbi: 看来高山雨林兄是同道中人,呵呵。 开个玩笑,叫鸡是不敢的,老婆管的严啊,一年中找机会和朋友洗几次桑拿倒有,呵呵。 其实在大陆特别是沿海地区的生活成本满高的,特别是有孩子的家庭,我家的小孩每个月的供养成本(含保姆费)要2000多元。:( jame兄说至少准备60万来加拿大倒真让我吓一跳,原来我想准备30万带过去帮助适应前两年生活应该可以了吧,可以在前两年读一个学位,打打义工,我想2年后也应该可以适应加拿大社会了吧。 其实我想移民加拿大的原因最根本的原因就是想换换环境,人生经历丰富一些。而且还有这样个信念,别人可以我为什么不可以?可能是不把头碰到南墙上心不死吧。呵呵<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 50万有点多了吧,20万也多。 我们当初来掏空了所有家当, 才5000加币 ============================================== Life is a checkerboard, and the player opposite you is time. You are playing against a partner who will not tolerate indecision! |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 10:15 | 只看该作者 #45 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 260
声望: 363363
|
以前我在国内的时候也是在一个小城市,老公和我都在国企,收入也和你们差不多,日子过的清闲,安静,舒适。逢年过节的时候,和父母姊妹在一起,全家热热闹闹的,那种感觉现在让我好怀念。。。我们来这里两年多了,大多数的日子都是焦虑,紧张,烦躁,还有就是对父母无限的思念。偶尔也有心情放松的时候,那就是这里的自然环境很好,但是开心过后又是对未来的迷茫和期待。我想以你现在这种情况,来到这里以后很难再达到国内的水准了。至于来不来,我觉得和个人的心理承受能力有关,有的人性格开朗,总是能看到“曙光”,就是打工,也能找出打工的乐趣来,那你就来。如果觉得自己的性格属于内向型的,别来了。心情压抑会让你失去更多的生活乐趣。不敢保证你来了以后的10年会怎么样,但我想至少在1--3年里面会让人很艰难的去体会“生活”,3年以后,如果你夫人能读个college学个什么护士啊,出来就能找到工作了。或者是你拿到了类似于现在很多中国人都在学的电工证,钳工证的这些有一定技能的证书,只能说你在加拿大的生活才开始。要是这些都达不到的话,这辈子你就把希望都寄托在你孩子身上吧,忘掉自己,埋头苦干,生活的目标之一就是“打工,赚钱,养家”。不过你要是来这里之前有很多钱,来了之后能买房,买生意,那也需要你慢慢的去趟着往前走。。。毕竟钱也不是好赚的 真不知道该和你说些什么,在这里所有的辛苦我都能找到借口掩饰过去,可是对父母的思念和远在他乡,却无法进到的那份孝心真的成了我心里“永远的痛”,这种痛苦能被什么取代?加拿大 清新的空气,加拿大好的福利,加拿大的人权和自由,还是那些被某些移民公司说的天花乱坠的花絮。。。 我想还是看你自己的人生观吧。象我这样的属于恋家型的,喜欢平平淡淡的,安安稳稳的,还是不来的好。 但我们来了,而且还在这里坚持下去的最大原因,一是年龄比你们有优势,二是我家那位属于“技术人才”,有自己的专业,英语不错。我才看见一点光明,仅仅是一点,以后的还在幻想,还在努力。不过一切好辛苦。 |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 16:45 | 只看该作者 #46 |
Junior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 4
声望: 0
|
Ten or twenty years ago. No one asked this kind of question. There's huge gap in the living standard between China and the West world. No one will hesitate if he/she has a change to go abroad. Even new immigrants at that time also missed home, the significant improvement in living standard and wealth has more than compensated any regrets. However, thing has taken a decivise turn since then, and this question become harder and harder to answer now. Simply put, the West world has lost tremendous economic groud to the developing countries, especially China and India since the end of cold war. At the same time the Chinese and Indian economies rise like rocket, the west is suffering huge losses in jobs and income, and suffering recession after recession. When the developing countries are chunking out millions of new middle-class citizens, the middle class in the west are under the constant threat of job losses and stuggling to make ends meet. The reason for that is simple, there are basiclly four factors countries compete with each other: technologies, capital, market and labor. Now technologies and capital belong to the companies, not any countries. So they can be moved anywhere in the world. The market access is open season for all thanks to free trade. That leaves the only factor for competition to be the labor cost which the west has no way to compete with China and India. That's why all companies are moving to China and India to replace expensive workers in the west with cheaper labors there, the advance in technology and free trade make all these possible. As an old Chinese saying: there's a turn of fortune every 50 years. Looks like it's about time now. Whether the west has any chance to turn things around, you may have your own opinion but I don't think so. The train has left the station and it can't be stoped. |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 17:30 | 只看该作者 #47 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 295
声望: 0
|
我不同意你的观点。也许美国会衰落,但21世纪的leading power还轮不到中国和印度,我看好日本。中国和印度在世界新秩序中的定位只是低端的生产基地和消费市场,真正的核心竞争力(技术和资本)仍然掌握在发达国家手中。 新移民的问题主要在于"阶层跌落"造成的经济、社会地位等全方位的失衡。就算在国内,你让一西部小县城的县长移民到北京也会遇到同样的问题。从下往上奔,总有些人会痛苦退缩甚至沉沦。人生倏忽几十年,是否值得?那就见仁见智了... 但我反对破釜沉舟不留后路的做法。对于很多人,回去就是失败,其实这是个心理问题,有过一次经验就能克服。哪里舒服去哪里才是硬道理。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darek01: Ten or twenty years ago. No one asked this kind of question. There's huge gap in the living standard between China and the West world. No one will hesitate if he/she has a change to go abroad. Even new immigrants at that time also missed home, the significant improvement in living standard and wealth has more than compensated any regrets. However, thing has taken a decivise turn since then, and this question become harder and harder to answer now. Simply put, the West world has lost tremendous economic groud to the developing countries, especially China and India since the end of cold war. At the same time the Chinese and Indian economies rise like rocket, the west is suffering huge losses in jobs and income, and suffering recession after recession. When the developing countries are chunking out millions of new middle-class citizens, the middle class in the west are under the constant threat of job losses and stuggling to make ends meet. The reason for that is simple, there are basiclly four factors countries compete with each other: technologies, capital, market and labor. Now technologies and capital belong to the companies, not any countries. So they can be moved anywhere in the world. The market access is open season for all thanks to free trade. That leaves the only factor for competition to be the labor cost which the west has no way to compete with China and India. That's why all companies are moving to China and India to replace expensive workers in the west with cheaper labors there, the advance in technology and free trade make all these possible. As an old Chinese saying: there's a turn of fortune every 50 years. Looks like it's about time now. Whether the west has any chance to turn things around, you may have your own opinion but I don't think so. The train has left the station and it can't be stoped.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 17:46 | 只看该作者 #48 |
Junior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 4
声望: 0
|
You didn't get my point. To put it that way, the leading technologies may be in the hands of companies which have headquarters based in a few developed countries. But that doesn't mean these technologies belong to these countries, the companies have no loyalty or respect to any particular countries or even their employees, the only thing they are loyal to is the profit. If they manufacture all products in Asia, what stops them from moving the most advanced technologies to Asia and even innovate these technologies in Asia? As for capital, again, they belong to the companies not the countries. Most developed countries are the most indebted countries actually. The US has to borrow $1 billion capital per day to make ends meet. In the long run, there's no reason for the companies to remain in these countries to help pay their debts. I'm not saying China will necessarily surpass US. But if this trend continues, every country including US, Canada and China will be polarized, with 5% super-rich, 95% poor. It will all be the same so forget about moving anywhere. [QUOTE]Originally posted by 草头猪王: 我不同意你的观点。也许美国会衰落,但21世纪的leading power还轮不到中国和印度,我看好日本。中国和印度在世界新秩序中的定位只是低端的生产基地和消费市场,真正的核心竞争力(技术和资本)仍然掌握在发达国家手中。 新移民的问题主要在于"阶层跌落"造成的经济、社会地位等全方位的失衡。就算在国内,你让一西部小县城的县长移民到北京也会遇到同样的问题。从下往上奔,总有些人会痛苦退缩甚至沉沦。人生倏忽几十年,是否值得?那就见仁见智了... 但我反对破釜沉舟不留后路的做法。对于很多人,回去就是失败,其实这是个心理问题,有过一次经验就能克服。哪里舒服去哪里才是硬道理。 |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 18:07 | 只看该作者 #49 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 295
声望: 0
|
说实话,看你的英文有些吃力(绝非说你英文有问题),可能没有完全理解吧。如果你真要讨论,还是尽量说中文吧,毕竟这个帖子本身以中文为主。看了你的一些帖子,还是很有想法的,但一用英文,看得人就少了。当然,如果你只是想写些自己的看法,而不在乎是否有人看或者看的人是否能明白,那就当我没说。我一般是如果贴主用英文,我就用英文;如果贴主用中文,我就用中文。交流嘛,要互相明白才能交得起来... <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darek01: You didn't get my point. To put it that way, the leading technologies may be in the hands of companies which have headquarters based in a few developed countries. But that doesn't mean these technologies belong to these countries, the companies have no loyalty or respect to any particular countries or even their employees, the only thing they are loyal to is the profit. If they manufacture all products in Asia, what stops them from moving the most advanced technologies to Asia and even innovate these technologies in Asia? As for capital, again, they belong to the companies not the countries. Most developed countries are the most indebted countries actually. The US has to borrow $1 billion capital per day to make ends meet. In the long run, there's no reason for the companies to remain in these countries to help pay their debts. I'm not saying China will necessarily surpass US. But if this trend continues, every country including US, Canada and China will be polarized, with 5% super-rich, 95% poor. It will all be the same so forget about moving anywhere. [QUOTE]Originally posted by 草头猪王: 我不同意你的观点。也许美国会衰落,但21世纪的leading power还轮不到中国和印度,我看好日本。中国和印度在世界新秩序中的定位只是低端的生产基地和消费市场,真正的核心竞争力(技术和资本)仍然掌握在发达国家手中。 新移民的问题主要在于"阶层跌落"造成的经济、社会地位等全方位的失衡。就算在国内,你让一西部小县城的县长移民到北京也会遇到同样的问题。从下往上奔,总有些人会痛苦退缩甚至沉沦。人生倏忽几十年,是否值得?那就见仁见智了... 但我反对破釜沉舟不留后路的做法。对于很多人,回去就是失败,其实这是个心理问题,有过一次经验就能克服。哪里舒服去哪里才是硬道理。<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 18:16 | 只看该作者 #50 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 295
声望: 0
|
你说的是个大趋势。这个大趋势就算是真正的未来趋势,但它影响到不同的局部需要多少年?更不要说什么时候以何种方式影响到局部的局部--个体了。说实话,我反对"Think Big",同时我以为中国人(知识分子)有个毛病就是想得太大想得太远。本身你处在的社会阶层就决定了你绝大多数情况下不可能全面正确地掌握相关信息,那么所谓的"长远想法"有多大意义就值得商榷了。对于大多数人,Don't think big。每天抽半小时跑一下步,身体健康少生病这一生能省下的钱可能就是个不得了的大数目。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darek01: You didn't get my point. To put it that way, the leading technologies may be in the hands of companies which have headquarters based in a few developed countries. But that doesn't mean these technologies belong to these countries, the companies have no loyalty or respect to any particular countries or even their employees, the only thing they are loyal to is the profit. If they manufacture all products in Asia, what stops them from moving the most advanced technologies to Asia and even innovate these technologies in Asia? As for capital, again, they belong to the companies not the countries. Most developed countries are the most indebted countries actually. The US has to borrow $1 billion capital per day to make ends meet. In the long run, there's no reason for the companies to remain in these countries to help pay their debts. I'm not saying China will necessarily surpass US. But if this trend continues, every country including US, Canada and China will be polarized, with 5% super-rich, 95% poor. It will all be the same so forget about moving anywhere. [QUOTE]Originally posted by 草头猪王: 我不同意你的观点。也许美国会衰落,但21世纪的leading power还轮不到中国和印度,我看好日本。中国和印度在世界新秩序中的定位只是低端的生产基地和消费市场,真正的核心竞争力(技术和资本)仍然掌握在发达国家手中。 新移民的问题主要在于"阶层跌落"造成的经济、社会地位等全方位的失衡。就算在国内,你让一西部小县城的县长移民到北京也会遇到同样的问题。从下往上奔,总有些人会痛苦退缩甚至沉沦。人生倏忽几十年,是否值得?那就见仁见智了... 但我反对破釜沉舟不留后路的做法。对于很多人,回去就是失败,其实这是个心理问题,有过一次经验就能克服。哪里舒服去哪里才是硬道理。<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 19:33 | 只看该作者 #51 |
夫妻在线
|
同意对英语学习成本的看法。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 甲用户: 很多人花了三四年的时间在犹豫要不要来,就没有几个人愿意花三四年把英语学好。不要幻想来这里再学英语,你想想这里学英语的成本换成人民币每个月就是至少一万人民币(虽然上课是免费,但是你失去的收入和时间每个月至少就是一千五加币),在中国,你要一年肯花一万人民币(其实主要是时间)来学英语,我保证你会很快适应加拿大<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 19:51 | 只看该作者 #53 |
夫妻在线
|
说说我们的情况看对你能否有参考。 我和我老公都是学外语的,英语都不错,在国内和在这生活质量基本没有下降,去年10月份搬到小城市以后,虽然收入下降了,但是随着交税少,开销下降,工余时间增加,环境更加安静,反而感到比多伦多生活质量有所提高。 加拿大的税收制度,基本上排除了发大才的可能性,但是小康还是很容易的。 我们现在都在电话中心做客户服务,活一点也不辛苦,工余时间享受生活,比如滑冰、打羽毛球、游泳、郊游,和朋友吃饭、打乒乓球、唱卡啦OK,等。 忘了说,我们来的时候也是33岁以上了,没小孩,父母都好,所以没什么后顾之忧。 我的体会是英语很重要,但是如果你是稀有专业人才,相对于某个地区的话,那英语就不那么重要了。如果你是不太稀有的人才,英语和实际工作能力就非常重要了。 比如说,有一个新移民,英语很差,但是公司就缺搞金融网络安全的人,所以就录用他,并出钱让他去学英语。 在我们这个小城市,接电话的人相对紧俏,所以,英语不太好的人也很容易进电话客户服务中心工作。 你如果要来,要多考察不同城市,根据自己情况找一个自己能成为紧俏人才的地方去发展,那样,就可以避免英语的弱项,突出专业的强项。 供参考。 James Wang, A smart traveler Founder of www.supercaregiver.com member of autotaxi.com,hospitalityclub.org couplechina@yahoo.com,coupleonline@hotmail.com |
|
Feb 6th, 2004, 20:04 | 只看该作者 #54 |
I love Canada
注册日期: Jul 2004
住址: Toronto
帖子: 188
声望: 0
|
移民就象抄股, 关键是心态要好. 不要光比钱, 人生有很多比钱重要的多的东西. 这一点没结婚, 没小孩的人很难体会. 以前乡下的土财主自己没文化, 可是要送小孩留洋. 现在的人怎么每月刚赚了几千块人民币就害怕出国了? 中国原来太落后了, 落后到都不知道(都不感相信)自己有多落后. 中美(美国和加拿大算是一个水平)之间的差距不是30-50年. 而是100年. 不要光看表面的东西, 要看骨子里的差别. 很多东西没办法讲, 只有你自己去体会. 看看那些四处抱怨的都是些新移民, 过了3-4年还有谁抱怨. 都过的滋润着呢. 做人要有眼光. 让历史告诉未来, 糊涂的时候去看看历史书, 现在特后悔高中没认真上课. [This message was edited by Starbucks on February 06, 2004 at 21:12.] |
|
Feb 7th, 2004, 06:27 | 只看该作者 #55 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 295
声望: 0
|
3-4年后人就分化了,能找到专业工作的也找到了,找不到的也安心打Labor了/读书了,真受不了的也就回去了;还抱怨的自然是少数。是否都过的滋润?我看不见得啊... 你可以问一下Joe, 3-4年前的华枫网友现在还来发贴的有几个,绝大多数都消逝了。他们都过得滋润着呢? 我们那一批2001年来的10几个当时在华枫上认识,来之前都热烈发贴还搞了聚会。来加后,华枫上我是硕果仅存。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Starbucks: 看看那些四处抱怨的都是些新移民, 过了3-4年还有谁抱怨. 都过的滋润着呢. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
|
Feb 7th, 2004, 06:33 | 只看该作者 #56 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
帖子: 295
声望: 0
|
夫妻两人的开销和一个人差别不大,而夫妻分开的代价就可能很大了。我肯定"甲用户"是单身,呵呵.... <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 夫妻在线: 同意对英语学习成本的看法。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 甲用户: 很多人花了三四年的时间在犹豫要不要来,就没有几个人愿意花三四年把英语学好。不要幻想来这里再学英语,你想想这里学英语的成本换成人民币每个月就是至少一万人民币(虽然上课是免费,但是你失去的收入和时间每个月至少就是一千五加币),在中国,你要一年肯花一万人民币(其实主要是时间)来学英语,我保证你会很快适应加拿大<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> |
|
Feb 7th, 2004, 08:38 | 只看该作者 #57 |
Senior Member
|
同感!! 只希望平平淡淡过一生的人,最好别瞎折腾,苦中作乐不是人人能做到的。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 大漠紫禁令: 人活一世,匆匆忙忙几十年,就是个经历,如果只想舒舒服服地过日子,每天希望多一事不如少一事的人还是呆在国内别出来的好,这和挣多少钱没有关系, 这是人生观的问题. -----华枫游泳俱乐部<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Go to Canada,my HappyRoad. |
|
Feb 7th, 2004, 18:21 | 只看该作者 #59 |
夫妻在线
|
我很难给你做决定,但是可以给你提示如何去做决定,因为要根据你自己的情况。 要决定下一步,首先要自问下面的问题: - 对你自己最重要的3/n个东西是什么,钱、取得公民身份、体验海外生活、以后以加拿大为后半生的据点、孩子、老婆/老公、兴趣、事业有成、高薪、自己当老板......? -你自己最有激情做的是什么事? -自己的优势是什么有哪些资源:以前的经验、关系、市场的需求、能投入的人力、时间和才力......? -会遇到哪些问题和如何克服才能实现目标:语言、时间、地点、资金? 想清楚上边的东西,你就好做决定了。 不去凑热闹学财会,我认为是非常可取的,尤其在你没有什么优势、市场需求又不是特别旺盛的情况下; 年龄对学习不是个障碍,如果有兴趣、热情和其它动力; 这和你做销售一样,你卖什么东西,对哪些人有用,谁会出多少钱买,为什么从你这买不从别人那买,为什么买甲、不买已,根据这个再去决定进什么货,能用什么价进货、用什么渠道进货、用什么价卖出去,打算赚多少钱。 希望以上对你能有点启发。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 刚睁开眼: to "夫妻在线“ 在这里经常看见你的身影,觉得你们很愿意帮助人,所以很想向你们请教:我移民马上一年啦,一直犹豫以后的路怎么走?本想上college学会计,无奈学的人太多,我本人有多年的销售经验,想继续在这条路上走,可总怕语言是绊脚石,无法和其他人竞争,本人英语还凑合,是主申请人,又想在college学国际贸易,年龄已老(33),请给我处处主意?谢谢<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> CWO (Chief Wife Officer) James Wang, CHO (Chief Husband Officer) A smart traveler Founder of www.supercaregiver.com member of autotaxi.com,hospitalityclub.org couplechina@yahoo.com,coupleonline@hotmail.com |
|
Feb 7th, 2004, 22:22 | 只看该作者 #60 |
Senior Member
注册日期: Jul 2004
住址: Toronto, ON
帖子: 5,368
积分:8
精华:15
声望: 4690496
|
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 草头猪王: 3-4年后人就分化了,能找到专业工作的也找到了,找不到的也安心打Labor了/读书了,真受不了的也就回去了;还抱怨的自然是少数。是否都过的滋润?我看不见得啊... 你可以问一下Joe, 3-4年前的华枫网友现在还来发贴的有几个,绝大多数都消逝了。他们都过得滋润着呢? 我们那一批2001年来的10几个当时在华枫上认识,来之前都热烈发贴还搞了聚会。来加后,华枫上我是硕果仅存。 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Starbucks: 看看那些四处抱怨的都是些新移民, 过了3-4年还有谁抱怨. 都过的滋润着呢. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 我一直在努力发贴啊 ========================== 越过辽阔天空啦……飞向遥远群星 来吧 阿童木 爱科学的好少年 善良勇敢的啦……铁臂阿童木 十万马力 七大神力 无私无畏的阿童木 穿过广阔天地啦……潜如深深海洋 来吧 阿童木 爱和平的好少年 善良勇敢的啦……阿童木 我们的好朋友啊 无私无畏的阿童木 |
|