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旧 Dec 4th, 2004, 23:57   只看该作者   #21
Millwright
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默认

一直想写点有关证书的东西给网上的朋友,苦于没有时间。今天挨了砖头,看来不能不回了。先说明一点因为比较忙有些时候只能片言只语地发表一些评论, 过于简单,可能引起一些误会。

先说一个真实的故事,一个拿了证的同胞在做machine operator,找到maintenance supervisor说他有证想干maintenance, 由于正好需要帮手,就让他做helper.应该说对他来说是个绝好的机会,The machine shop almost has everything for maintenance, such as lathe, mill, surface grinder, drill press, saw, welding and so on. Unfortunately, the Chinese guy can not handle some small job, even he doesn’t know how to start the lathe, how to use torch and doing some work in very funny way (according other maintenance guys vivid description). Even machine setup guys laugh at him, “Licensed guy still learning, funny ah?” The supervisor got surprised and questioned him about his license. The poor guy almost confessed everything: where the school he attended, how he got the reference letter which says he had 5 years experience in China, blah, blah… Needless to say, that poor guy had been sent back his position.

You can image what impression that supervisor got about Chinese licensed guys. Do you think he would like to hire another Chinese guy? Even so, to my opinion, he will be very cautious at least when interview others. To make matters worse, the supervisor 把这件事当个故事到处宣扬。可以想象,下一个Chinese candidate所面临的困难。

我没把那个证当做什么了不起的东西,但我对这种对整体形象不负责任的做法感到生气。急着找工作可以理解,但要掂量掂量自己。真正的license是要经过至少四年学徒的,干过四年和没动过手的不能同日而语。仅凭那苍白的证书我看难以跨过这个门槛。证书=工作?No way!

(Sorry I have to go, to be continued)
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旧 Dec 5th, 2004, 10:35   只看该作者   #22
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默认

I appreciate w3w:
自己一开始很有压力。边干边学,去HOME DEPOT买了本PLUMBING的书,看人家是怎么做的;经常去HOME DEPOT看材料,看工具,经常想怎么能把工作做好。我烧的第一份焊,是在我家的凉台上。我自己买材料回家练。到现在,做的很好,很顺。老板很满意。

I agree with Millwright:
我没把那个证当做什么了不起的东西,但我对这种对整体形象不负责任的做法感到生气。急着找工作可以理解,但要掂量掂量自己。真正的license是要经过至少四年学徒的,干过四年和没动过手的不能同日而语。仅凭那苍白的证书我看难以跨过这个门槛。证书=工作?No way!

I didn't tell employers that I had license when I was hunting jobs but didn't think I could handle a licensed job. I did related jobs for more than a year. I worked hard and learned related skills from every opportunity. In this way, when I finally got a license job, I had the confidence to do it well in a short period. Because I knew I shouldn't be less smarter than the average trades people. I did do excellent jobs soon after hired. I am still learning everything new to me. I will definitely be the best in the organization.
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旧 Dec 5th, 2004, 21:15   只看该作者   #23
Millwright
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默认

我至今没发现一个没有经过一定时间锻炼,考了证就找到工作的人。也可能本人消息闭塞。知情者请跟贴,让我开开眼。可千万别和我说某某就是这么找到的$15/h Millwright的工作。不知Plumber的行情,对millwright的位置来说,给你$15,在人家的心目中你根本就不是licensed millwright,尽管他嘴上承认.

这种要求动手能力极强的工作不是我们大多中国人的长项,除了实践没啥捷径可走。个人感觉,很多人考证的热情高国对实践经验的渴望。不踏踏实实步步为营,总想来点快的,抄近道,很可能最后是竹篮打水。国内第一批卖假酒的大发一笔,但长不了,后来的恐怕没那么幸运。

(it seems my point is too negative, please be patient, more positive point will follow. to be continued)
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旧 Dec 5th, 2004, 22:35   只看该作者   #24
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默认

没有工作就没有经验,没有经验又找不着工作。这个怪圈大多改行的移民都经历过,冲破这个怪圈还真得下点功夫,个人认为要比拿证困难些。经历这个过程,有机会的成分,更离不开个人的主观努力。建议:选准行业,找切入点,积累经验。

不要在乎第一份工作的收入,要看能不能长见识。实际上这也是一种投资,回报不在今天,而是在下一份工作。我坚信凭中国人的勤奋和智慧一定能胜任这种工作。


再强调一下我的观点,不要着急考证,更不要show off. 在这个阶段,那个证只有负作用,对你没任何帮助。就像我前面提到的例子,如果那个人不提他有证,可能还有机会。人的本性是帮助弱者,不论什么种族。不如他时他帮你,你比他强时他往下拽你。

另外从雇主的角度讲,如果这个位置不是需要有证的(not pay high),他不会考虑你。他知道keep不住你(一旦你有了足够的经验,you will say bye-bye to your boss for sure)。谁愿意顾一个半年一年就跳槽的人呢?

另外,选行业要慎重,你喜欢才行。只有你喜欢才能百分之百地投入。迫不得已的选择,以后你不会开心。瞧不起这行业就别干。

我反感管我叫labour (歧视性的), 尤其是国内更甚。尽管我老婆对此也愤愤不平,吵架有时也说“越看越像老工人”,但对我带回来的cheque 她总是眉开眼笑从未嫌脏。说远了。

(To be continued )
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旧 Dec 6th, 2004, 09:46   只看该作者   #25
baoni
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默认

同意millwright的观点(后面的).
我现在做maintainence,不敢告诉老板有证,因为1,他会笑话你?! 2他会不要你!(我没有维修经验)

更同意millwright的下面的观点,看好再动手,打labor时费尽心机想做机修,现在做上了,发现不喜欢,浪费时间,不如好好学英语,以后机会还是很多的.我认识的机修(中国人)都是$25/h或以上,我想一年,两年,几年,我保证会达到这个工资水平,时间的问题,但我却正在考虑转行,很简单因为不喜欢.
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旧 Dec 6th, 2004, 21:13   只看该作者   #26
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默认

不想继续写了,在Plumber这块地上舞锄弄镰的也不好。(sorry to Divad416)

总之这种trade相对说入们容易,可高可低,收入不差,play的空间大,再就业可尽可退。我相信同胞经过一两年的磨练都能干得很好。





引用:
作者: w3w
看你是MILLWRIGHT。我倒要请教一下阁下,你在中国的时候,做过吗?
没有

如果没有,你拿到MILLWRIGHT证书后,有没有“到处招摇地”直接去做MILLWRIGHT的工作?
没有
如果有,你的第一份工,有没有让你手忙脚乱?

不要告诉我你天生就是MILLWRIGHT的料。如果没有,那你迟早要有那一天。到时,希望你不要给你的证书抹黑。
我没有。我是先干相关工作后拿的证。因为工作出色(包括其他同胞),老板特意在中文报登广告招人。不谦虚地说我和其他同胞为后人种下了阴凉。

我现在做的这份工,也有几个月了,也是从零做起。自己一开始很有压力。边干边学,去HOME DEPOT买了本PLUMBING的书,看人家是怎么做的;经常去HOME DEPOT看材料,看工具,经常想怎么能把工作做好。我烧的第一份焊,是在我家的凉台上。我自己买材料回家练。到现在,做的很好,很顺。老板很满意。你有什么意见要发表?你又有什么看法呢?

我提倡这种做法。

我们来到这里不容易,大家都急吼吼地要挣钱养家。从不会做到熟练,总要有个过程,做不好,演砸了,是有些对不起那张证。

到什么时候出手这个尺度确实难以掌握,演砸了可以理解。我的观点是要卖假酒,总得有点酒味再吆喝吧。

但是,从正面的意义来说,这给我们压力,逼我们自己去提高自己的动手能力。我知道有两个PLUMBER朋友,都是考出证来后,直接去做PLUMBER。几年过去了,他们都做的不错,老板不停地给他们加薪。对此,你有什么高论要发表?

我的经验:最闹心的时候是你最长见识的时候。
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旧 Dec 6th, 2004, 21:52   只看该作者   #27
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默认

“有证可什么也不懂更不会干的大有人在”

不知你是在圈里还是圈外,在圈里你可以这样安慰自己,在圈外这可不是理由。

“怕一些中国面孔把“你”的证抹黑了让你不好找工吧”

这个“你”如果代表所有的同胞,你说对了。对我个体而言,影响不大,我已在圈里了。

引用:
作者: heatcool
发表个人看法可以,没有必要把话说得那么冲。

有人把“证”这个东西看得太大,说什么对不起那张纸,我发现,其实在这个行当里,有证可什么也不懂更不会干的大有人在。说明白了,是怕一些中国面孔把“你”的证抹黑了让你不好找工吧。不要让别人的偏见左右自己的想法。
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旧 Dec 6th, 2004, 22:05   只看该作者   #28
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默认 成了辩论的地方了

不去多说了。每个人的情况不同,经历不同。我们大概也不好一概而论。各走各的路,我做我的工,有那精力辩论,还不如业余打打工赚点外快,不在这里费神。祝大家好运。
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旧 Dec 7th, 2004, 19:47   只看该作者   #29
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默认 没劲

引用:
作者: Millwright
“有证可什么也不懂更不会干的大有人在”

不知你是在圈里还是圈外,在圈里你可以这样安慰自己,在圈外这可不是理由。
争来争去的没劲。你也别较真。大家的“圈子”不同,情况不同也可以原谅。
我说那句话是我的看法,看到过许多有证的人干的活和干法,真不知道他们的证是怎么考到的(西人),正如我师傅的一句话,有一部分人是不应该待在“圈内”的,他们很危险(THEY ARE DANGEROUS.)有时候想,如果报告了TSSA可能在我前面来过的那个老兄就玩完了。当然,老祖宗的话还是没有忘记的“人外有人,天外有天”。

不争了,这个PLUMBER团体到底办不办?
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旧 Dec 8th, 2004, 18:31   只看该作者   #30
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默认

Sorry, I can not key in Chinese.

I am working as an HVAC technician and got almost same experience like you all. Even though I was an HVAC engineer in China, I can not handle some basic or manor technician jobs in Canada. So, I was frastrated at the beginning.

Yes, it is yes. I can not say that I was an engineer in China in my resume. the interviewer will tell you that you are over qualified. the hidden mean is that you are not good for work.

So, I have to choose as a helper at the beginning application. as matter as fact, I can not get job quickly, so I went to apply my licence at the same time. when you learned for licence, you can get some knowledge about canadian technician. It is very important for your future job.

Now, I passed the hard time and can do jobs by my self only. I can make use of lots of my chinese engineer experience and did some excellent caculation for my installation work.

So, I think that the licence is very important after I get some experience.

Trying to apply the low position to get chance is only way. So, you don't worry your future. Going to home depot is a good idea.

Good luck and chinese engineers can handle Canadian technician jobs for sure.

Give me feedback if you have some question

my wife is calling me to do some home work.

See you, guys!
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旧 Dec 11th, 2004, 23:11   只看该作者   #31
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默认

longlong66

我们是同一领域的,我现在只有g3,正准备去读个g2。这样就冷热两全了。plumbing我现在只是helper,想等攒够了经验后再作打算。

希望能和你多多交流。我的email:hawke9@hotmail.com
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旧 Dec 12th, 2004, 00:30   只看该作者   #32
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默认

引用:
作者: w3w
看你是MILLWRIGHT。我倒要请教一下阁下,你在中国的时候,做过吗?如果没有,你拿到MILLWRIGHT证书后,有没有“到处招摇地”直接去做MILLWRIGHT的工作?如果有,你的第一份工,有没有让你手忙脚乱?不要告诉我你天生就是MILLWRIGHT的料。如果没有,那你迟早要有那一天。到时,希望你不要给你的证书抹黑。

我现在做的这份工,也有几个月了,也是从零做起。自己一开始很有压力。边干边学,去HOME DEPOT买了本PLUMBING的书,看人家是怎么做的;经常去HOME DEPOT看材料,看工具,经常想怎么能把工作做好。我烧的第一份焊,是在我家的凉台上。我自己买材料回家练。到现在,做的很好,很顺。老板很满意。你有什么意见要发表?你又有什么看法呢?

我们来到这里不容易,大家都急吼吼地要挣钱养家。从不会做到熟练,总要有个过程,做不好,演砸了,是有些对不起那张证。但是,从正面的意义来说,这给我们压力,逼我们自己去提高自己的动手能力。我知道有两个PLUMBER朋友,都是考出证来后,直接去做PLUMBER。几年过去了,他们都做的不错,老板不停地给他们加薪。对此,你有什么高论要发表?
请教各位,考plumber 的license 怎么考,要看哪些书.哪里能得到这些书.兄弟我现在想考,一是不知道该看哪些书,二是不知道上哪里弄到这些书.我也是新移民,也想入这行,希望各位前辈多多指点.
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旧 Dec 12th, 2004, 00:58   只看该作者   #33
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默认 plumber

我在montreal,干plumber已经好几个月了。看到这儿如此多中国管工,感到找到了志同到合的朋友。希望大家联系我。
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旧 Mar 23rd, 2005, 13:35   只看该作者   #34
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默认

引用:
作者: 胡温吴
请教各位,考plumber 的license 怎么考,要看哪些书.哪里能得到这些书.兄弟我现在想考,一是不知道该看哪些书,二是不知道上哪里弄到这些书.我也是新移民,也想入这行,希望各位前辈多多指点.
大家讨论得很热烈,但是对这位老兄的实质性问题,却没人感兴趣!sigh.

请明白二大哥给说说好吗?
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旧 Mar 23rd, 2005, 17:33   只看该作者   #35
PerterMan
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作者: Millwright
我至今没发现一个没有经过一定时间锻炼,考了证就找到工作的人。也可能本人消息闭塞。知情者请跟贴,让我开开眼。可千万别和我说某某就是这么找到的$15/h Millwright的工作。不知Plumber的行情,对millwright的位置来说,给你$15,在人家的心目中你根本就不是licensed millwright,尽管他嘴上承认.

这种要求动手能力极强的工作不是我们大多中国人的长项,除了实践没啥捷径可走。个人感觉,很多人考证的热情高国对实践经验的渴望。不踏踏实实步步为营,总想来点快的,抄近道,很可能最后是竹篮打水。国内第一批卖假酒的大发一笔,但长不了,后来的恐怕没那么幸运。

(it seems my point is too negative, please be patient, more positive point will follow. to be continued)
hi,buddy,we're Chinese,Whatever you're Canadian Citizen or immigrant! you can discuss these questions with each other.But I wish that you guy don't say anything to white ,black or brown guys. Some of us like talking our shortcomings to those guys. you know,this is so bad to all of us.in fact, every colour has their shortcomings and we are either. like us,we come here and we cann't find any suitable job as we can do. so a few of us try to do those jobs that they have never done. I think that it's positive. why some of us say in a negative way?I tell you some truths:My boss is a master electrician,he's been working for 40 years in Canada. He still makes some mistakes in our jobs. According to my experience, there're lot of junk trade workers in Canada,around us. So, don't give our Chinese a negative point.We're one person as those colours look at us. You can'nt change your skin,your mind,your essences.Good luck,guys!
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旧 Mar 23rd, 2005, 18:30   只看该作者   #36
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默认

Good point!
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旧 Mar 24th, 2005, 00:47   只看该作者   #37
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默认

引用:
作者: PerterMan
hi,buddy,we're Chinese,Whatever you're Canadian Citizen or immigrant! you can discuss these questions with each other.But I wish that you guy don't say anything to white ,black or brown guys. Some of us like talking our shortcomings to those guys. you know,this is so bad to all of us.in fact, every colour has their shortcomings and we are either. like us,we come here and we cann't find any suitable job as we can do. so a few of us try to do those jobs that they have never done. I think that it's positive. why some of us say in a negative way?I tell you some truths:My boss is a master electrician,he's been working for 40 years in Canada. He still makes some mistakes in our jobs. According to my experience, there're lot of junk trade workers in Canada,around us. So, don't give our Chinese a negative point.We're one person as those colours look at us. You can'nt change your skin,your mind,your essences.Good luck,guys!
说得好!!!人往高处走,古今如此。
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旧 Mar 27th, 2005, 17:58   只看该作者   #38
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默认

我的建议:
1 自己做个名片、宣传单,说自己是handyman自己给自己揽点活,可以免费给邻居修,积累经验;
2 可以到 apt大楼当房管,superintendant, 即解决了自己的住房,又解决了工作,还有许多机会修修弄弄。

不知有没有人试过这条路。
CWO

我的签字:寻找方向 http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/1232334667
已故老公的签字:世界华人好人网总舵主http://coupleonline.blog.sohu.com/
http://www.gmcca.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=71
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旧 Apr 10th, 2005, 12:45   只看该作者   #39
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大家好:我是新移民,我也想学plumber,请指点,怎么考证,先找什么样的工作。谢谢!请回复:handong_y@hotmail.com

handong
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旧 Apr 10th, 2005, 13:25   只看该作者   #40
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sxtyhao,你好:能给介绍一下plumber好吗?handong_y@hotmail.com 谢谢!
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