假设给您个机会换CD机。请问您选那个？

[sgyyz]

听过旧型分体式Wadia转盘＋解码，音质／音色不会比好的黑胶转盘系统差很多。
新型的解码器就真的越来越数码了，所以还有很多玩家偏要旧型的解码，比较sounds like analog。

Pick your own poison!

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

WADIA加了料的吧，就是校过声，弄的都象黑焦的音色。现在的解码都讲直白，够通透的话，就看录音了，录音好也不会数码位重的

应该说，每个牌子都有自己的signature sound。简单的看，数码就是binary，很直白。比较creative的话，数码可以千变万化。所谓的signature。。。

东西在手里，想怎样玩都可以，就看你想象力有多深。
录音室的录音，还有录音师，不是唯一的。。。

[sgyyz]

作者: lighting

hdtracks 上的 96kHz/24bit 已不是CD 了，估计与 很多的SACD 碟 是出自同一个mastering

要小心哦。。。呵呵
Scandal Brewing in High Resolution Downloads?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...tion-Downloads

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

还好，hdtracks好像还比较可靠。
"They only seem to acknowledge the issue and do something about it when somebody complains. Seems their business model is to d...

你一半都还没看完。再continue下去还有精彩的。。。
回家有时间用analyzer来测试就大概知道是真是假了。

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

随便挑了一个，测出来是这样：
我水平差，也看不出好坏

This one looks like a real hi-res.
I'm not at home now. Can you try the one I upsampled from 16/44.1 (from a bunch of upsampled files on my USB drive). You should see an mirrored frequency diagram at the top end. Or may be not ...

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

sgyyz，你upsampled的来了，一看就有问题

Interesting. What is the track name?
Believe I have Esperanza Spalding in both native 16/44.1 (100% CD ripped) and upsampling version from 16/44.1 to 24/96. If you don't mind, can you pick one from both and compare the frequency diagrams?

Suspect the upsampling software must have done something interesting ...

edit: looks like the one you attached is DK's Quiet Night. Yes I downloaded the flac from soemwhere and upsampled it. The flac source may possibly be faked into 16/44.1, or it simply doesn't reach the higher ferquency range. Having said that, I have two 24/96 tracks from HDTracks, DK's Quiet Night. I did not purchase the full album for this one. Will compare them when I get home.

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

对，是DK的quiet night
好了，第一个是16/44.1，后面一个是upsample后的。

I can only conclude that details can't be created using upsampling process. That's why both diagrams look almost the same.

[sgyyz]

I do software upsampling because I have a mix of real 24/96 tracks (mostly from HD Tracks) and a lot of 16/44.1 tracks. Since iTunes in Windows does not do automatic sampling rate switching (it doesn't have full exclusive access, meaning it has to pass through Windows own mixer, eg. Quick Time (WASAPI) > Windows 7 sound mixer).

So by having 16/44.1 tracks upsampled to 26/96, I can stick Windows mixer to one setting (24/96) and not having to change it manually every time iTunes is gonna play 24/96.

I guess I can say bye-bye to software upsampling, stick to Windows mixer at 24/96 and let Windows do on-the-fly upsampling, since upsampling does not add or substract any detail. That will save a stupid lot of disk space!

The real listening difference between native 16/44.1 and upsampled 24/96 is next to zero. Most of the time when I'm listening to one song I don't really remember what rate is it playing at.

[sgyyz]

Hugoo，我从你那儿拿到的Bill Evans Trio - Waltz for Debby (HD Tracks 24/192)，从Audacity看，很多都是在48kHz（mono）cut off。其实就是96kHz stereo。这很明显是从96 upsampled 去192。但file确是192／24的。网站上也注明是192／24的。
https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?f...00888072330030

Email HD Track and get your refund or any compensation / credit for next purchase.

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

谢谢！
给他们发了email，看看会有什么结果。
24/96的要比24/192的便宜$10，虽然24/192的听着效果很不错，但这种明显的cheating怎么样也是不能容忍的。

我也检查了我买的24／96。都还好，只是有一些很明显不能充分利用高频率部分。唯一被upsampled的就是John Coltrane and Jonny Hartman (https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?f...00011105015721)。今天发现它是从48upsampled去96。但当时买的时候就已经注意到网站写的是24／48。用player打开却是96的。我买时候也就付24／48的价钱，所以没得吵。我认为HD Tracks这个album被人捉痛脚它才重新注明24／48。

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

我也在computeraudiophile.com那个帖子里面把图贴了出来，让更多的人看看，这种事情，越多人知道越好。

那帖子里已经有人提起跟你一样的遭遇，同样的Bill Evans Trio 24/192。所以我很肯定是upsampling。

[sgyyz]

检查了从HD Tracks买的两首DK － Quiet Time，都顶到了48k per channel，是真的96k。Live in Paris，DVD－A的24／96 LPCM，也都顶到了48k per channel。都是密密麻麻的红／蓝。

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

这个album的问题好像更严重，我把scale改成48khz，再看看，竟然像是个16/44.1，20k以上全被cut。
edit: 从好的方面想，这16/44.1的效果还真不错，以后连高清都不用买了，录音好的话，44.1就行。

应该不是被cut。你看红色的分布，左右声道是不一样的。可以看出还是有东西出现在40k之上。

蓝色的，我猜是很弱的细节，是harmonic overtones？得让pro来解释一下。。。

[sgyyz]

Surprise ... surprise!
Court and Spark的原唱－Joni Mitchell，这是从180g 黑胶数码翻录去24／96。看看红色部分，有些已经直顶48k了。显然用96k来翻录可能都得爆表，要192k！Holy shit。这是黑胶吗？

Joni Mitchell - Court and Spark
Asylum/Rhino R1-1001 (2009)
Mastered by Chris Bellmann @ Grundman Mastering, Hollywood
180G Premium Vinyl Pressing by RTI
24-bit / 96kHz Vinyl Rip by Dr. Robert
July 2011

Vinyl condition: New Sealed

Deadwax info
Side 1: RI-1001-A CB 18364.1 (3) ...
Side 2: RI-1001-B CB 18364.2 (3) ...

Nitty Gritty RCM 1.5
Technics SL-1210 MK2 DD Turntable
Origin Live OL1 fully modified tone arm (Rega RB250)
Audio-Technica AT33EV MC Cartridge
Pro-ject Tube Box SE II Preamp
Tascam US-144 external USB 2.0 Audiointerface
AudioQuest G-Snake LGC interconnects
Mac Pro Dual Zeon 2.66 GHz
Bias Peak Pro 6.2 recording software
Click Repair 3.4.1 for de-click (manual mode only)
iZotope RX Advanced 2.0 for Redbook conversion
xACT 1.71 for Redbook SBE correction and redbook FLAC
XLD Version 20110703 (135.1) for 24/96 FLAC conversion

RCM > TT > AT33EV > TubeBox preamp > ADC > Mac Pro > Peak Pro @ 24/96 > analyze (no clipping, DC Bias offset correction, each side gain adjusted to -0.3 dB) > split into individual tracks > Click Repair 3.4.1 used in manual mode, 20~30 Rev, Pitch Protection, X2 > FLAC encoded level 8 with XLD

No DeNoise was used on this rip.
All de-clicking software used in full manual mode to preserve musical transients.
No music was harmed in the making of this vinyl rip.
No silence been removed, please burn gapless to match original track layout.

[sgyyz]

这是Nat King Cole的SACD。Analog out然后数码翻录成24／96。用Audacity分析了几首Nat的，基本上图都如以下。
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/6580

[sgyyz]

作者: 老广

这张不知源头，像是CD。最好PCM, ANALOG, DSD的SACD各一张比较一下。不过音乐内容不同差别会大的，还有用的乐器。

是SACD。某些红色线已经超过30k了。不会是CD的16／44.1。无论如何，Nat King Cole的声线很吸引我。这是一张很好听的碟。给我MP3我都听。

很奇怪图里的红色虚线是代表什么？

Nat King Cole - The Very Thought of You
Analogue Productions CAPP 1084 SA (2010)
24-bit / 96kHz SACD Rip by Dr. Robert

Oppo DV-980H Analog Stereo Out
Tascam US-144 external USB 2.0 Audio-interface
Mac Pro Dual Zeon 2.66 GHz
Bias Peak Pro 6.2 recording software
iZotope RX Advanced 2.0 for Redbook conversion
xACT 1.71 for Redbook SBE correction
XLD Version 20101120 (125.2) for FLAC conversion


Oppo SACD > ADC > Mac Pro > Peak Pro @ 24/96 > analyze (no clipping, DC Bias offset correction, each side gain adjusted to -0.5 dB) > split into individual tracks > FLAC encoded Level 8 with XLD

[sgyyz]

作者: hugoo

我在computeraudiophile.com的帖子有了新进展，看看吧，很有意思的。http://www.computeraudiophile.com/no...#comment-93039
transfer是他亲手做的，我感觉他说的还是比较可信的。

我觉得有点变相升频。为何用牛刀来杀鸡？就为了多赚$10？你的24/192我都用软件downsample去96k，因为我的USB上不到192k。要不哪天我们做个试听就知道了。听听是否有他说的bass definition improvement。

[sgyyz]

作者: busrel

这里有个问题需要澄清一下。我就用摄影的原理来解释一下为什么黑胶会能有所谓192khz的玩意被记录下来。

没错。胶卷vs.数码相机就是这么一回事。
135到中副我认为数码相机已经完全取代了。剩下的8x10还是比较有意思。
个人认为胶卷用传统方式出片子（暗房人工那种）还是比较有欣赏价值。
数码的，太泛滥了。

[sgyyz]

作者: busrel

目前胶卷也就只有一点还能打击一下数码的软肋。cmos由于物理原因，光电饱和过程是线性的，而且一旦饱和就无法接受更多光子，所以数码动态范围比胶卷还是差了一点，尤其是反差极大的风景片。我手头的5d mark 2拍一个有悬崖和烈日的风景，明显会把天空洗白，而用velvia就不会有这个事。这也是为啥现在风景...

数码的话，可以用不同的曝光拍几张然后后期软件用blended exposure。数码的优势。。。数码sensor吃暗不吃亮，遇光即死。

[sgyyz]

作者: busrel

hdr拍摄法？那个可得包围曝光3张啊。。有些场景不太适合，而且后期混合也比较复杂 (我是懒人）。 我反正在等高动态范围cmos的出现，应该快了，一出我就把我的胶卷玩意都扔了。

想片子出得漂亮的话，bracket 3张不够。如果我把整个场景分zones，在曝光上精打细算的话，10张以上吧，后期的tonal range／dynamic我可以控制得更好。

某些玩意是不能扔的，比如，TRI-X 跟 D-76。