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旧 Jan 6th, 2009, 22:46   只看该作者   #241
b777lr
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默认

对呀,windows总设计师就是dec出来的,所以windows的技术水平不可能低,不过是设计时另有考虑

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cu...ware_engineer)
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旧 Jan 6th, 2009, 23:22   只看该作者   #242
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默认

越来越跑题了。建议开新贴讨论。
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旧 Jan 6th, 2009, 23:27   只看该作者   #243
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越来越跑题了。建议看新贴讨论。
iphone太历害了
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旧 Jan 6th, 2009, 23:53   只看该作者   #244
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俺讲的是pdp对后世影响巨大,包括vax, unix, linux。。。

m$做系统的就是从那儿出来的,但是windows是从新设计的,不过设计的人是所有东
西都懂的

你们不知道看什么呢
真的跟不上你的节奏了!
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:08   只看该作者   #245
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不能这么说, 我就是用的你说的PDA + GSM PHONE + WM的OS + GPS +WIFI .......

不过我玩过八毛的IPHONE之后, 我觉得IPHONE的设计和概念, 那确实是相当的前卫新潮, 和相当的面对普通人民群众, 当然了, 概念并不意味着高技术高难度, IPHONE...
我也一直主要用MS的东西,包括PDA. 但是一看到iphone的界面,就感觉那才是自己想要的东东。

为什么MS开发者没有想出iphone类似的界面呢?就是因为微软从开始形成的很多条理性不够好的概念阻碍了开发者的思路。要想达到苹果系统简洁易用的效果,必须要自己重新设定桌面或者安装第三方软件。

最简单的例子:WM系统的桌面,竟然在小屏幕上采用行形式的item排列。这一点iphone的纯图标排列同时显示的内容多太多了,从而方便多了。当然安装第三方软件可以解决这个问题,但是还要花额外的钱,另外占用资源和稳定性很多有问题,很不明白微软作为图形操作系统,为什么对非常占用桌面面积的文字这么钟情。

此帖于 Jan 7th, 2009 10:30 被 top gun 编辑。
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:16   只看该作者   #246
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电脑不是消费品,主要还是看技术指标

俺换ie不是因为它好看的
呵呵,基本出发点就差距太大(俺认为电脑首先是消费品,技术是为应用服务的)。没啥好讨论的了。

微软不明白为啥苹果受欢迎,为啥微软做出来的东西尤其是界面跟苹果差距巨大,就是因为这个概念不同。

电脑是买来用的,不是买来折腾的。现在机器相对于人工越来越便宜。苹果系统由于软硬件的封闭性,直接打消了绝大多数用户的折腾念头,因此使用上相对稳定,大部分时间是机器给你干活而不是你捣鼓和伺候机器。功能如果不够就买台新的就完了。

PDA的基本操作界面已经固化,重启以后只是用户的一些设置没有了,但基本的使用和资源浏览功能还都在。桌面系统将来必然也会走这条路,一中病毒就连硬盘资料都不能看了简直就是笑话。

此帖于 Jan 7th, 2009 10:36 被 top gun 编辑。
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:39   只看该作者   #247
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呵呵,基本出发点就差距太大(俺认为电脑首先是消费品,技术是为应用服务的)。没啥好讨论的了。

微软不明白为啥苹果受欢迎,为啥微软做出来的东西尤其是界面跟苹果差距巨大,就是因为这个概念不同。
的确如此,在设计上,其实技术已经不是最重要的了,visibility & usability才是。
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:41   只看该作者   #248
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默认

你看开了这么多页,凡是说苹果技术多高的,基本举不出什么实事来。俺不仅告诉你,m$技术强在什么地方,而且系统是谁设计的,设计者在unix之前就是做操作系统的,资格要老的多 - 所以你不能说m$的人技术不行。

就技术体系来说,m$系统是新结构,linux系统是老结构,所以苹果实际上是老东西。就是在vax上作,也是那一套东西,x-window什么的,都差不多,开发起来,比m$的系统要繁杂。总之,对立的是m$和苹果,作为使用者,你是用不着选边,没有根据的捧其中一方的。m$和苹果各有长处短处,但苹果强的地方不是技术,m$的弱点也不是技术,恰恰是说反了。

至于business practice,双方其实都不怎么样,m$不是善主,苹果就是么?定价不说,iphone不光锁住电话,控制软件的安装使用,而且连电池都不让你换 - 俺看不出来消费者为什么要护着他们?分析产品,最好采取客观态度,否则不是脑子有病么,你又不是他们公司的代言人?
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:48   只看该作者   #249
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最简单的例子:WM系统的桌面,竟然在小屏幕上采用行形式的item排列。这一点iphone的纯图标排列同时显示的内容多太多了,从而方便多了。
...
哎,这就是设计想法的不同。WM是让你装软件的,每个人的口味,想法,oem厂商的做法都不同。像iphone那样的排列法,东西多了少了都不好看(一般是多)。但苹果可以完全控制自己的产品,大部分人也不会自己装很多软件,所以就搞成那个样子。
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:50   只看该作者   #250
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你看开了这么多页,凡是说苹果技术多高的,基本举不出什么实事来。俺不仅告诉你,m$技术强在什么地方,而且系统是谁设计的,设计者在unix之前就是做操作系统的,资格要老的多 - 所以你不能说m$的人技术不行。

就技术体系来说,m$系统是新结构,linux系统是老结构,所以苹果实际上是老东西。就是在...
大师,能给分析分析os/2技术高不高,为啥被淘汰了吗?
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 10:54   只看该作者   #251
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默认

os2技术还可以,但和用户最多的dos不兼容(所以你知道,为什么win31是100%和dos兼容了)

第二,它主要搭载ibm自己造的pc出售,价钱太高,在oem市场上一直打不开(也是和dos不兼容,用户不愿意抛弃自己的dos投资)
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:00   只看该作者   #252
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好像兼容的。
Windows 3.x compatibility

Compatibility with Windows 3.0 (and later Windows 3.1) was achieved by adapting Windows user-mode code components to run inside a virtual DOS machine. Originally, a nearly complete version of Windows code was included with OS/2 itself: Windows 3.0 in OS/2 2.0, and Windows 3.1 in OS/2 2.1; however, IBM later developed versions of OS/2 that would use whatever Windows version the user had installed previously, patching it on the fly, and sparing the cost of an additional Windows license.[26] It could either run full-screen, using its own set of video drivers, or "seamlessly," where Windows programs would appear directly on the OS/2 desktop. The process containing Windows was given fairly extensive access to hardware, especially video, and the result was that switching between a full-screen WinOS/2 session and the Workplace Shell could occasionally cause issues.[27]

Because OS/2 only ran the user-mode system components of Windows, it was not compatible with Windows device drivers (VxDs) and applications needing them.

Multiple Windows applications ran in a single Windows process, just as they would under native Windows. To achieve true isolation between Windows 3.x programs, OS/2 could run multiple copies of Windows in parallel. This approach required considerable system resources, especially memory. It was possible to use DDE between OS/2 and Windows applications, and OLE between Windows applications only.[28]
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:00   只看该作者   #253
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BSD,Solaris呢?
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:02   只看该作者   #254
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不要忘记os/2是ibm和m$合作搞的,他们共同的产品。但是分手是在win3投放市场的时候,win3巨大的成功,让m$立马看到,使用者要什么样的产品,所以干脆提出分手。

可以说,os/2是让win3给kill了。
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:05   只看该作者   #255
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作者: aaronding 查看帖子
BSD,Solaris呢?
都不是主流东西,进入pc太慢,Solaris是工作站级的,消费者没法用
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:06   只看该作者   #256
oaklet
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作者: b777lr 查看帖子
你看开了这么多页,凡是说苹果技术多高的,基本举不出什么实事来。俺不仅告诉你,m$技术强在什么地方,而且系统是谁设计的,设计者在unix之前就是做操作系统的,资格要老的多 - 所以你不能说m$的人技术不行。

就技术体系来说,m$系统是新结构,linux系统是老结构,所以苹果实际上是老东西。就是在...

苹果与微软的产品。。。

其差别主要是在哲学精神上的差异。


好不好看,好不好用,,这方面的差异只在10%-15%之内。

还有一个商业影响力的比较。。。微软和苹果根本就不是一个量级的。

微软的开放平台给整个世界所带来的相应的活力与创造力远非苹果的东西可比。。

只是,并不是每个人都能看到这一点。。


同样,UNIX对于整个世界的影响也超过了微软。。(我并不是指LINUX,而是指那个基本上是纯字符的服务器系统。)

对于不同的客户不同的目的不同的使用条件和要求,所需要的产品是截然不同的。



只是简单地根据用户界面比较谁好谁坏是毫无意义的事情。

就好像将两个人放在一起,比长相、比力气、比皮肤一样。。。

呵呵,,,,有点滑稽。。。。。

十七八岁的时候,也许大家都会这么干,,,

但是,三十七八了还这么比较的话,别人会笑话我们的。。。


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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:12   只看该作者   #257
b777lr
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默认

oaklet, fair say

总之,我们要客观评价产品,公司,不要带个人感情因素。俺不会因为使用某个公司产品,就说他们好话,也不会因为不使用谁的产品,就说他们的坏话。

实事求是比较好
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:21   只看该作者   #258
inLoop
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作者: b777lr 查看帖子
oaklet, fair say

总之,我们要客观评价产品,公司,不要带个人感情因素。俺不会因为使用某个公司产品,就说他们好话,也不会因为不使用谁的产品,就说他们的坏话。

实事求是比较好
其实每个人都在实事求是,但是每个人的立足点都不同。没有必要人为别人不同意你的观点,就不是实事求是了。
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 11:48   只看该作者   #259
b777lr
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作者: inLoop 查看帖子
其实每个人都在实事求是,但是每个人的立足点都不同。没有必要人为别人不同意你的观点,就不是实事求是了。
你这话里,有什么技术根据,或者事实来说明你的观点?典型的狡辩
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旧 Jan 7th, 2009, 12:03   只看该作者   #260
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作者: b777lr 查看帖子
你这话里,有什么技术根据,或者事实来说明你的观点?典型的狡辩
人家就是说个common sense,你居然问技术根据,你可太彪悍了。
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