***贫穷再也不是拒绝民主的借口：关注印度***

[CuteMM]

印度与中国有极为相似的历史，有着相似的社会结构，都是农民占大多数的农业国，也都拥有世界上最聪明、能干的精英阶层。然而，政治制度的差异注定使的两个国家的差距越来越小。

相对于中国当权阶层的拒绝民主，印度的民主成果却越来越使广大的印度人民受益。甘地的胜利很大程度上取决于占人口大部分的贫苦农民对瓦杰帕伊政府的不信任。 现在，10亿印度人可以行使自己的天赋权利，选出自己称心的领导人。而中国呢，贫富差距扩大，农民最惨，工人次之，只有少数特权阶层得益。甭说党外民主，党内也没有民主。人民不允许谈论民主。不允许持不同的政见。其中一个最堂皇的理由就是中国太穷，大部分人口受教育水平太低。 看看印度，还有什么话讲。共产党讲，人民的力量是最强大的，问什么就不相信人民的民主能力呢？

想想六四，想想还有众多的中国留学生因六四获罪，家都不能回，心里很涩。 再想想印度，日益强大的印度对中国的威胁要远远大于美国、日本。 一句话，想哭。写出来就算获罪， 也算了以慰心了。

13channel正在播出中国的妇女情况，愈发不舒服了。国外尚且如此关切中国，中国人是怎么了。起来啊，不愿做奴隶的人民。 暂此搁笔。 不然真的要哭了。

[DoCool]

上面的话是我写的。 我错用我老婆的ID了。上面谨代表我的观点，与我老婆无关。

[Joecan]

其实,印度也好,俄国也好,经济比中国差也好,比中国好也好,最起码对外吵着也要走民主.

中国是个短线股,要么贪点,要么骗点,捞一把就跑.其它还能指望什么呢?除非说政治与经济没有关系,计划与市场可以共存.

不过,我觉得卡城有什么鱼协,球协,怎么没人组织一个政协?

[kggl]

说得这么好,你为什么不去印度住两年回来再说说民主 大家都知道印度的民主不是搞了一年两年,而是数十年了,去看看吧,这大盖就是你想要的民主...我只是知道,曾经有印度人(不只一个)亲口对我说他们永远都不想回到或者踏足那个国家,为什么? 大家想吧...或者去住两年再说

[DoCool]

实际上我也不知道我想要的民主什么样。
另外，我看到的是印度最贫穷的农民投了甘地的票，也造成了瓦杰帕伊政府的瓦解 另外，我关注的是人民的意志可以有途经表达、宣泄。 这是重点。至于说，印度民主的不完美，那是注定的，因为印度有悠久的历史，复杂的社会结构，森严的家族制度。

***我关注的是人民的意志是否得以合法、和平的表达***

[Joecan]

呵呵,印度是很穷啊

不过,中国真的不能搞民主,因为人民受的教育太低,比如我们村,选村长(村民自治委员会主任,名字很有意思)的时候,侯选人先把本家族的票全拉过来,再去拉朋友的,然后就买票,一般50-100一张(我们村中等富裕),就看谁有钱,然后就比谁的票多,谁就当选.老百姓就选给钱多的.

所以,民主的不行.

[DoCool]

在印度，名门望族的子弟可以把"贱民"像狗一样打死。 我也知道这一点。 但是，中国某些地方的部分当权者可以把“贱民”像骡马一样使唤，像狗一样打死，也是不争的事实。

都是落后的思想挑战法治、民主的思想 的具体表现。

[DoCool]

我始终认为，这种现象是必然的。 过个3年的循环期， 人民就会意识到谁坏谁好，是广泛的利益重要，还是100rmb及时。

你说的这个不是民主发展的长期障碍。

提到家族，实际上还是封建思想挑战民主思想。家族重要，还是大众重要。

呵呵
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joecan:
呵呵,印度是很穷啊

不过,中国真的不能搞民主,因为人民受的教育太低,比如我们村,选村长(村民自治委员会主任,名字很有意思)的时候,侯选人先把本家族的票全拉过来,再去拉朋友的,然后就买票,一般50-100一张(我们村中等富裕),就看谁有钱,然后就比谁的票多,谁就当选.老百姓就选给钱多的.

所以,民主的不行. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[DoCool]

心里痛。 但是还得一步一步来。

[Joecan]

其实,说这个故事的时候我即想大笑,又很无奈.

我亲眼见他们这么做,这么选,一届又一届,可是老百姓一点都不傻:你选来选去就是那么几个人有什么用,谁上台都一样,还不如先把钱放TOU时自己塔实.

[DoCool]

You should think about HongKong if you think low quality education can make the pure democracy impossible. The highly-educated HongKong people are just robbed of their democracy rights.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joecan:
其实,说这个故事的时候我即想大笑,又很无奈.

我亲眼见他们这么做,这么选,一届又一届,可是老百姓一点都不傻:你选来选去就是那么几个人有什么用,谁上台都一样,还不如先把钱放TOU时自己塔实. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[六点十分]

中国人一点都不傻，但只是小聪明，着眼点太小。

[DoCool]

Because they NEVER enjoy the goodness brought by the democracy which means they can control their life by theirself. If they know that, they will reject the 100RMB for sure.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 六点十分:
中国人一点都不傻，但只是小聪明，着眼点太小。 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[west lake]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CuteMM:
印度与中国有极为相似的历史，有着相似的社会结构，都是农民占大多数的农业国，也都拥有世界上最聪明、能干的精英阶层。然而，政治制度的差异注定使的两个国家的差距越来越小。

相对于中国当权阶层的拒绝民主，印度的民主成果却越来越使广大的印度人民受益。甘地的胜利很大程度上取决于占人口大部分的贫苦农民对瓦杰帕伊政府的不信任。 现在，10亿印度人可以行使自己的天赋权利，选出自己称心的领导人。而中国呢，贫富差距扩大，农民最惨，工人次之，只有少数特权阶层得益。甭说党外民主，党内也没有民主。人民不允许谈论民主。不允许持不同的政见。其中一个最堂皇的理由就是中国太穷，大部分人口受教育水平太低。 看看印度，还有什么话讲。共产党讲，人民的力量是最强大的，问什么就不相信人民的民主能力呢？

想想六四，想想还有众多的中国留学生因六四获罪，家都不能回，心里很涩。 再想想印度，日益强大的印度对中国的威胁要远远大于美国、日本。 一句话，想哭。写出来就算获罪， 也算了以慰心了。

13channel正在播出中国的妇女情况，愈发不舒服了。国外尚且如此关切中国，中国人是怎么了。起来啊，不愿做奴隶的人民。 暂此搁笔。 不然真的要哭了。 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

are you nuts?

[DoCool]

I am not for sure
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>are you nuts? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are You Nuts?
Friday April 23, 2004

You can find out if you're nuts and don't know it, with tips from a leading psychiatrist.

"Millions of Americans are clinically insane but they don't realize it because, well, they're crazy," says maverick Dr. Barbara Flenel.

"But it's certainly nothing to be embarrassed about. Some of our greatest historical figures and celebrities have been stark, raving mad. Billionaire Howard Hughes was an obsessive-compulsive lunatic who washed his hands hundreds of times a day because he was terrified of germs."

Finding out whether you are nuts can help you avoid making costly and embarrassing mistakes, says the expert.

Here are three "yes" and "no" questions that, when answered honestly, will indicate whether you're riding the "sanity train" or the "cuckoo bus," says Flenel, adding that if your friends and loved ones don't want to answer the questions themselves, you may feel free to answer for them and tell them what you've concluded.

Remember: You must answer each question with a "yes" or a "no" -- no hedging!

1) Do you ever feel that life is more complicated than it needs to be?

If you answered "no," you have an admirable grip on reality and the kind of can-do attitude that it takes to be a winner in life.

If you answered "yes," that is not a good sign. You are struggling to cope and in time may crack or even "go postal" and kill somebody, especially if you answer "yes" to the next question.

2) Have you ever wished that the good things in life would happen all the time and the bad things would just go away?

If you answered "no," once again, you've proved that you are capable of rolling with the punches, and that you can embrace life and live it to the fullest -- which are hallmarks of the sane mind.

If you answered "yes," you are deeply and possibly even dangerously troubled. By rejecting the half of reality that's not to your liking, you are constantly struggling to come to terms with "what is" and "what could be." Even worse, you've sliced your psyche in half, rendering yourself "schizo."

King Midas -- who wanted everything to turn gold -- suffered this way. He was extremely unhappy, and, eventually, the famed, fairy-tale royal went stark, raving mad.

3) Do you think other people are the cause of your problems?

If you answered "yes," you are both infantile and out-of-balance, a classic "nut." The chances of you ever finding meaning and happiness in life are slim. After awhile, this misery may cause you to fall completely off your rocker.

If you answered "no," you are level-headed and eventempered. Both of these are characteristics of a sane and healthy individual, psychiatrist Flenel says.

"If you are sane, congratulations -- and if you are a nut, take heart," continues the Los Angeles-based expert. "Today really is the first day of the rest of your life. And if you want to change, you can.

"If you've got money, make an appointment with a psychiatrist. If you're poor, visit your state-supported mental health center and stand in line. Either way, you'll find yourself on the road to recovery from an illness you didn't even know you had."

[油朴]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joecan:
呵呵,印度是很穷啊

不过,中国真的不能搞民主,因为人民受的教育太低,比如我们村,选村长(村民自治委员会主任,名字很有意思)的时候,侯选人先把本家族的票全拉过来,再去拉朋友的,然后就买票,一般50-100一张(我们村中等富裕),就看谁有钱,然后就比谁的票多,谁就当选.老百姓就选给钱多的.

所以,民主的不行. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

没什么太大的不对呀(贿选是不对，但比不选举正确)? 老百姓当然应该选给自己最多利益(钱)的人了,难道还选给自己最多害处的人?

如果这个人竞选时给选民带来了利益,以后当权后却害人,老百姓也会明白自己受骗了,下一次再选别人.

民主不是让人民当家做主,民主是让人民在认识到前面的主人不好后, 有权利、有机会换一个新的主人试试看。

[Calgary]

有意思, DoCool和CuteMM原来是一家人!

多说一句, 人民党执政十年, 印度高速发展了十年,一般都以为人民党会赢得选举. 可是当选举结果是国大党获胜的时侯, 倒也没有见人民党静坐示威要求重选或者重新清点选票.

[闲不着]

The socity of lion which kind of system doesn't matter.

The socity of ant and bee, democrocy must be not a good system.

[DoCool]

The past ten year of india cause the generation of a new society class which contains the mosted talented and youngest people. New generated capticalists and highly-qualified workers benefit a lot from the boom of the economy not the farmers and peasants. And that is why poor people feel dissapointed with Wajipayee's government and vote for gandhi for their new leader.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Calgary:
有意思, DoCool和CuteMM原来是一家人!

多说一句, 人民党执政十年, 印度高速发展了十年,一般都以为人民党会赢得选举. 可是当选举结果是国大党获胜的时侯, 倒也没有见人民党静坐示威要求重选或者重新清点选票. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[DoCool]

(1) Society of lions means every individual has the power to live ,fight and lead. Everyone is powerful and equal. Everyone has the power to chanllege current leader. So the society evolves efficiently. It really doesnt matter.

(2)But the society of bees and ants are totally defferent. Most members of the society are workers. They live in the lowest level of the ladder. They work hard but are treated unequally. Not everyone has the power to chanllege current leader. Only the siblings of the king/queen can be next king/queen.
So, the Democracy matters.

(3) Modern society is the mixture of lions and ants/bees. The current situation is the lions can treat the ants/bees as they want but the ants/bees can do nothing for that unequally treatment.

Which system do you prefer?
And another private question, are you lion or bee??



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 闲不着1:
The socity of lion which kind of system doesn't matter.

The socity of ant and bee, democrocy must be not a good system. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>